FIRST APPENDIX OF SUMMARY JUDGMENT EVIDENCE Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 1 of 200 EXHIBIT 1 (continued) Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 2 of 200 EXHIBIT 1 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 3 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF ARKANSAS 2 WESTERN DIVISION 3 TERRY HOBBS ) PLAINTIFF, ) 4 ) VS. )NO. 4:09-CV-0008BSM 5 ) NATALIE PASDAR, INDIVIDUALLY ) 6 AND NATALIE PASDAR, EMILY ) ROBISON AND MARTHA SEIDEL ) 7 d/b/a DIXIE CHICKS ) DEFENDANTS. ) 8 9 10 11 12 VOLUME I, Pages 1 - 200 13 ORAL DEPOSITION OF 14 TERRY HOBBS 15 JULY 21, 2009 16 17 18 19 20 KELLY D. HILL 21 7010 RICHWOOD ROAD 22 LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS 72207 23 (501) 353-2220 24 25 KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Page I Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 4 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 ANSWERS AND DEPOSITION OF TERRY HOBBS, a 2 witness produced at the request of the 3 Defendants, was taken in the above-styled and 4 numbered cause on the 21st day of July, 2009, 5 9:02 a.m., before Kelly Hill, a Certified Court 6 Reporter, taken at the law offices of Huckabay, 7 Munson, Rowlett & Moore, 400 West Capitol Avenue, 8 Suite 1900, Little Rock, Arkansas, 72207, in 9 accordance with the Federal Rules of civil 10 Procedure. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Page 2 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 5 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 ON BEHALF OF PLAINTIFF: 3 Page 3 4 5 MR. J. CODY HILAND MR. TED THOMAS ATTORNEYS AT LAW 557 LOCUST AVENUE CONWAY/ ARKANSAS 72034 6 7 ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT NATALIE PASDAR: 8 MR. DAN D. DAVISON MS. D'LESLI M. DAVIS 9 FULBRIGHT & JAWORSKI/ LLP 2200 ROSS AVENUE/ SUITE 2800 10 DALLAS/ TEXAS 75201-2784 11 MR. JOHN E. MOORE MS. MELISSA BANDY 12 MS. SARAH E. GREENWOOD HUCKABAY/ MUNSON/ ROWLETT & MOORE 13 400 WEST CAPITOL AVENUE/ SUITE 1900 LITTLE ROCK/ ARKANSAS 72201 14 15 ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT THE DIXIE CHICKS: 16 MR. ROBERT WELLENBERGER (VIA TELEPHONE) THOMPSON/ COE/ COUSINS & IRONS/ LLP 17 700 NORTH PEARL STREET PLAZA OF THE AMERICAS/25TH FLOOR 18 DALLAS/ TEXAS 75201-2832 19 ALSO PRESENT: TOM HALLUM/ VIDEOGRAPHER 20 21 22 23 24 25 KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 6 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL It does. Because the court reporter has a hard time Page II 3 taking down if both of us talk at the same time. 4 And she also have a very difficult time taking 5 down shakes of the head or uh-huhs or huh-uhs, so 6 if you could answer out loud verbally, that would 7 be helpful; is that agreeable, sir? 8 9 A. Q. I agree. All right. Now, in Texas, you know, I -- I 10 certainly typically don't have a problem being 11 heard, and I will try to speak up. I do know 12 Slr, that you have a tendency to be soft-spoken 13 at times. So even though we're on videotape, if 14 you would try to answer out loud, as forcefully 15 as you can, I think that'll -- that'll help both 16 the videographer, it'll help Mr. Wellenberger who 17 is on the phone, and it'll help the court 18 reporter; is that fair? 19 20 A. Q. Sounds fair. All right. Mr. Hobbs, could you tell the 21 ladies and gentlemen of the jury why you sued my 22 client? 23 A. For her statements against me that she made 24 on the internet. 25 Q. Anything else? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 7 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 A. And her actions in the -- on the -- here ln 2 Little Rock. Page 12 3 4 Q. A. That's at the rally? Yes, sir. 5 Q. All right. Any -- any other reasons that you 6 sued my client? 7 MR. THOMAS: I object to the extent 8 that that calls for a legal conclusion, because 9 it requires him to apply facts to the law. you filed a lawsuit against my client. 10 11 Q. I'm just asking you, sir, for the reasons why You said 12 the letter on the internet and the rally. 13 Anything else? 14 MR. THOMAS: Continuing objection. 15 You go ahead and answer, Terry. 16 A. Probably -- or not probably for the -- all 17 the emotions, distress, the anger. 18 19 20 Q. A. Q. That her statements caused you? Correct. Well, they certainly weren't things that you 21 had never heard before, is it? 22 A. No. 23 Q. As matter of fact, they are things that had 24 been said for years and years about you, isn't 25 it? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 8 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 13 1 2 A. Q. Some people say. Well, I mean, you said. You've said in press 3 releases and in the newspaper that these are 4 things that have been said time and time again 5 against you for years and years; isn't that 6 right? 7 8 A. Q. It is. As a matter of fact, you said you previously 9 testified -- not testified -- you've been quoted 10 in the newspapers as saying that the press was 11 out to get you for years, correct? 12 13 A. Q. I'd have to see that quote. Well, that's something that you've thought, 14 isn't it, that the press has been out to get you 15 for years and years? 16 17 A. Q. I had to -- no, I don't think I thought that. Well, you filed a grievance against 18 Mr. Riordan, didn't you? I did. And who is Mr. Riordan? He's the defense attorney for Damien Echols. 19 20 21 22 A. Q. A. Q. All right. And when did you file that 23 grievance against him? 24 A. I'm not sure of the date, but probably '07, 25 '08. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 9 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 Q. All right. And the reason for that is 2 because you think he's out to get you? Page 14 3 A. No. I think their actions were out to get 4 me. 5 Q. Well, you said -- isn't it true, Mr. Hobbs, 6 that from basically the time of the murder and 7 the convictions -- the murders and the trial and 8 the conviction and all the appeals that have gone 9 forward since that time, you've been -- you've at 10 least been at the center of this controversy 11 about who killed the boys and were the boys 12 wrongly convicted 13 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a 14 legal conclusion. 15 16 17 18 19 Q. A. Q. A. Q. No, that hasn't been a controversy? No. What do you say that? Why do you say that? Well, I get to ask the questions here, sir, 20 so 21 A. Because it's not a true statement. 22 Q. Okay. So there's -- there hasn't been an 23 ongoing controversy about whether or not the 24 West Memphis Three killed the three boys? 25 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 10 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 15 1 legal conclusion. Do we need to make the regular 2 stipulations regarding reservation of objections 3 except as to form of the question? I don't know 4 if y'all have a standard stipulation that you do 5 in Texas. 6 MR. DAVISON: We just take them by 7 the rules, that's fine. Hasn't there been there a controversy since 8 9 Q. MR. THOMAS: Okay. 10 the convictions to whether or not the boy -- the 11 West Memphis Three were wrongfully convicted? In some people's mind. 12 13 A. Q. Okay. And -- well, there's been national 14 press on the subject, hasn't there? 15 16 A. Q. There has. And there have been several books written on 17 the subject, hasn't there? 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A few. There have been shows on CNN about it, right? There has. There's been shows on Geraldo about it? Yes. And there have been shows on America's Most 24 Wanted about it? 25 A. There has. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 11 of 200 1 Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL In fact, you've been in all those shows, Page 16 2 haven't you? 3 4 5 6 A. Q. A. Q. A part of them, uh-huh. That's a yes, correct? It is a yes. And that's been since the time of the 7 convictions going forward to today, right, that 8 controversy? 9 MR. THOMAS: Object to the extent 10 that it calls for a legal conclusion. 11 Q. You get to still answer. He has to just make 12 objections to preserve them, but 13 A. Can you repeat the question? 14 MR. DAVISON: Could you read the 15 question back, ma'am? 16 (Requested information was read.) Right? I didn't understand that question. 17 18 19 Q. A. Q. All right. Well, the controversy of whether 20 or not the West Memphis Three actually killed the 21 three little boys and whether or not they were 22 wrongfully convicted, that's been a controversy 23 from shortly after the verdict was returned until 24 we sit here today, right? 25 A. Correct, it has. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 12 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 required to define what is or isn't a public 2 controversy, because that's a legal concept, and 3 we're here to take a factual deposition. Page 18 4 5 Q. MR. DAVISON: Isn't it true, Mr. Yes, we are. you wrote a journal, 6 did you not, Mr. Hobbs, from May the 5th, 1993 ·7 forward? 8 A. I have done a lot of writing. 9 Q. Well, you produced a four volume journal to 10 us, correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And in that journal, don't you state that the 13 press is out to get you? 14 A. No. You don't say that? No. Do you think folks are out to get you? No. 15 16 17 18 19 Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Mr. Hobbs, how would you describe 20 yourself to the jury, as we sit here today? As being a pretty good man. I am presently divorced from a marriage that 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Okay. Well, tell me about yourself. 24 has been interrupted by the death of our child. 25 Q. And that's from Pam Hobbs? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 13 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Correct. Okay. As you sit here today, what do you Page 19 3 think your reputation in the community is? 4 A. The people that know me like me. 5 Q. Okay. But generally, what -- if you had to 6 describe your reputation to folks, other than 7 just as good man, what else would it be? the past, pretty good man. Q. Are you an honest fellow? A. I try my best. Q. Law-abiding man? A. I do pretty good at it. Q. And that's your reputation today? A. Well, that's - - some people might not think 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 A. Hard-working man, good dad, good husband in 16 so. 17 18 19 Q. A. Q. Well, what people don't think so? Who knows. As we sit here today, do you know of anybody 20 that thinks otherwise of you? 21 A. Yeah. There's people that has asked me 22 questions about all this stuff that shouldn't 23 have never been. 24 Q. And that's been going on for a long time, 25 hasn't it? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 14 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 A. About the past couple of years. 2 Q. When do you first recall being asked those 3 sorts of questions? Page 20 4 5 A. Q. What kind of questions? The questions you just said have been going 6 for the last couple of years? 7 A. People has corne up and asked me, did you kill 8 some babies. 9 Q. Who asked you that? 10 A. Friends. People that don't even know me. I 11 don't even know them. 12 Q. And you were asked that question on CNN, 13 right? 14 15 16 A. Q. A. Sure. When were you on CNN? Roughly '07, '08. 17 Q. Was that before or after the DNA results? 18 A. After. 19 Q. Was it after? 20 A. I'm guessing after. 21 Q. Well, I don't want you to guess. I mean, 22 that's one of the things -- and I know Ted -- 23 24 25 A. Q. A. I don't keep up with the dates. I know Ted doesn't want you to guess. I'm not keeping up with the dates. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 15 of 200 1 Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL So the first time you were ever asked if you Page 21 2 were -- if you had killed the three boys, it's 3 your testimony it was after the DNA results? 4 A. Probably. 5 Q. When were you on Geraldo? 6 A . ' 94 I t hink . 7 Q. When were you on Cooper 360? 8 A. '08, '07. 9 Q. Before or after the DNA? 10 A. After. 11 12 13 Q. A. Q. Okay. And Larry King? I didn't do Larry King. Was it -- was it your daughter that did Larry 14 King? 15 A. It was. 16 Q. And when did she do Larry King? 17 18 19 20 21 A. Q. A. Q. A. '07, '08. Okay. Did you ask her to go on Larry King? I advised her not to. Why did you advise her not to? Because I don't want my children drug into 22 this. 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. What do you hope to get out of the lawsuit? Justice. How do you define justice? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 16 of 200 1 2 3 4 A. Q. A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL In a court of law. You want money, don't you? I want justice as the Courts deem. You're going to ask the Court to award you Page 22 5 money, right? 6 7 A. Q. I ain't asking for nothing. So you're not going to ask the Court to award 8 you money? 9 10 A. Q. Justice. That's not my question. You're going to 11 sit -- you're going to get on the witness stand 12 and you're going to ask the Court to award you 13 money? 14 A. I don't no, I'm not asking for money. 15 Q. You're not asking for money. Then what do 16 you -- how do you define justice? 17 18 19 20 A. Q. A. Q. Whatever the Court deems necessary. An apology, is that enough? Whatever the Courts decide. No, I'm not asking -- I'm asking what you 21 want to get out of this lawsuit, Mr. Hobbs? 22 23 A. Q. If I would sit here to be honest. Then that's what -- I want you to be totally 24 honest. 25 A. I would sit here and say I'd like to see the KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 17 of 200 1 Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL So you don't remember -- you just remember Page 32 2 you talked to a criminal attorney in '93, but you 3 don't remember what you talked about; is that 4 right? 5 6 A. Q. Correct. And it was about the events of the evening of 7 May the 3rd May the 5th, correct? 8 9 A. Q. Uh-huh. Yes. Okay. What did you do to prepare for the 10 deposition today, sir? Anything? 11 12 13 14 15 A. Read some papers. Q. What did you read? A. Just some papers. Q. What papers? A. I don't know what they are. A bunch of 16 garbage. 17 Q. You have no idea what papers you read? 18 A. Yeah. Some statements. 19 Q. What statements? 20 A. From Sharon Nelson. 21 Q. What statements from Sharon Nelson? 22 A. A bunch of garbage. 23 Q. Well, what did Ms. Nelson say in those 24 statements that you think is a bunch of garbage? 25 A. How she believes that I told her I found the KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 18 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 boys' body before the police. Page 33 2 Q. When did you -- when did she make those 3 statements, Mr. Hobbs? 4 A. I don't know who she made them to. It's on 5 the paper. 6 Q. I asked -- I asked when she made those 7 statements? 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I don't know. Do you know who she made those statements to? Sure don't. Do you know when she made those statements? No, sir. You haven't sued her, have you? No, sir. 15 16 Q. Okay. Why not? MR. THOMAS: Objection to the extent 17 that it calls for a legal conclusion. 18 MR. DAVISON: I didn't ask him for a 19 legal conclusion. MR. THOMAS: legal strategy. 20 21 22 Q. I'm asking you why -- You're asking for a You're asking for why he did 23 stuff, and you're asking for the manner in which 24 he chose to exercise his rights under the law, 25 and that relates to legal strategy. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 19 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 37 1 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 2 3 4 Q. A. He said he didn't know. I'm not asking -- I still don't know. 5 Q. Still don't know. You know that your 6 interview is available on the internet, isn't it? internet. 7 8 9 A. Q. It is. In fact, the video is available on the You can get on Youtube and look at it, 10 can't you? 11 12 A. Q. You sure can. How long has that been available on the 13 internet? 14 A. Couldn't tell you. 15 Q. Why did the police want to talk to you? 16 A. Ask the police. 17 Q. Okay. Okay. Other than looking at this 18 half-inch paper that you can't recall, what else 19 did you do to prepare for your deposition, Mr. 20 Hobbs? 21 22 23 24 25 A. Tried to sleep on it. Q. Tried to get a good night sheep? A. I tried. It didn't happen. Q. I appreciate that. What else did you do? A. Prayed about it. KELLY HILL, CCR 50 I-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 20 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 46 1 A. I don't care. That's why I'm here today. 2 Q. Were you involved in the murder of the three 3 little boys? 4 A. No, sir. One of them little boys was my 5 stepson. 6 Q. I appreciate that, sir. Do you think the 7 West Memphis Three, the three that were convicted 8 in '94, do you think they did it? 9 A. Sure do. 10 Q. No doubt in your mind? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Has there ever been a doubt in your mind? 13 A. No. 14 Q. You would agree with me, sir, that there is a 15 doubt in a lot of other people's minds? 16 17 A. Q. I don't care about that. You don't want them to get a new trial, do 18 you? 19 A. Justice has taken it's toll, and I appreciate 20 the justice system. 21 Q. My question, sir, is you don't want the West 22 Memphis Three to get a new trial, do you? 23 24 A. Q. They don't deserve one. Then I take it you don't want them to get a 25 new trial? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 21 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 A. Exactly. 2 Q. And the reason is? 3 A. They killed three little boys. 4 Q. If there's a doubt that they killed -- killed 5 the three little boys, do you think they deserve 6 a new trial? 7 A. There's never been a doubt proven. 8 Q. Not in your mind? 9 A. Or the minds of the justice system. 10 Q. And you realize that those appeals are still 11 underway? Page 47 12 13 14 15 16 A. I don't care. Q. But you understand that? A. I do. Q. Okay. When was the last time you spoke with a criminal lawyer about the killing of the West 17 Memphis about the killing of the three little 18 boys? 19 A. A criminal lawyer? 20 21 22 Q. A. Q. Yes, sir. Ross Sampson. When did you -- and Mr. Sampson, he's a 23 criminal lawyer you consulted with regard to the 24 three killings, correct? 25 A. He's more than a criminal lawyer. KELLY HILL, CCR 50] -353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 22 of 200 1 Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL I appreciate that, but you consulted him in Page 48 2 conjunction with criminal issues? 3 4 A. Q. No. Okay. He's a -- he's your spokesman, right, 5 to the public? 6 7 8 9 A. Q. A. Q. He was at that time. What time are we talking about? , 07. So in '07 -- Roughly '07. 10 11 A. Q. Mr. you retained Mr. Sampson to be your 12 spokesman? 13 A. Mr. Sampson agreed to speak for me. 14 Q. Okay. Speak to you, you mean speak to -- 15 speak to the public? To the media, to the public. 16 17 A. Q. Okay. And is Mr. Sampson still your public 18 spokesperson today? 19 20 A. Q. No, he is not. At what -- from what period of time was Mr. 21 Sampson your media spokesman? Well, when in '07 did you first 22 23 A. Q. During Okay. '07, I'm thinking. I'm not sure. 24 contact Mr. Sampson about being your media 25 spokesman? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 23 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL I'm not sure. Well, was it spring, winter, fall, summer? Page 49 3 A. Fall probably. I'm just guessing the fall. 4 5 speculation. MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for 6 Q. I don't want you to guess. I just want you 7 to give me the best answer that you can. 8 9 A. Q. I just did. Was it before or after -- did you retain Mr. 10 Sampson to be your media spokesman before or 11 after you were interviewed by the West Memphis 12 police in '07? 13 14 A. Q. Probably before, if I remember right. Okay. I'm guessing again, because I don't remember. 15 16 A. Q. Okay. How much did you -- did you have a 17 written agreement with Mr. Sampson? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Mr. Sampson didn't charge me a penny. That's not my question. No, I did not, not on this issue. Not on the being a media spokesperson issue? Correct. He was authorized to speak on your behalf? I give him the permission. Without getting into the specifics of what -- KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 24 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 50 1 well, let me back up. Was he acting as your 2 lawyer then or just a media spokesman? 3 4 5 6 7 A. Q. A. Q. A. A spokesman. Not a lawyer? Correct. He wasn't giving you any legal advice? Other than tell me not to talk to them, and 8 that's why I told him that's why I'm getting with you. 9 10 Q. I want you to tell them. So as the media spokes representative or 11 consultant, Mr. Sampson advised you not to speak 12 to the media, right? Well, I'm asking you. I don't remember. 13 14 15 16 A. Q. A. Q. Probably. Well, did he? Ask him. I mean -- 17 A. I don't remember. 18 Q. You don't remember if Mr. Sampson told you 19 to to or not to -- 20 A. I told Mr. Sampson I wasn't going to talk to 21 the media, and I want you to do it for me. 22 23 Q. A. Okay. So he did. 24 Q. Okay. And he was authorized to do so on your 25 behalf? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 25 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Correct. And did you and he talk about what he should Page 51 3 tell the media? 4 5 A. Q. Yeah. What did you -- what did you guys talk about 6 that he should tell the media? 7 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for 8 privileged communication. 9 MR. DAVISON: He's already said it 10 wasn't in a legal capacity. 11 12 that. 13 MR. THOMAS: MR. DAVISON: He's not free to waive It's his privilege to 14 waive. He's the only one that can. 15 MR. THOMAS: I instruct him not to 16 answer about any conversations he had with Mr. 17 Sampson. 18 Q. Are you refusing to answer that question? 19 A. I do. 20 Q. Okay. You said that's the only -- that Mr. 21 Sampson didn't charge you for that 22 representation. I take it from your answer that 23 he's charged you in other contexts? 24 A. Uh-huh. 25 Q. You have to answer out loud, Mr. Hobbs. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 26 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Yes. What -- what other representation or how -- Page 52 3 when else did you hire Mr. Sampson in which he 4 represented you in which you paid him money? 5 6 A. Q. He did a Hollywood film contract with us. Is that the Dimension Film, or is that a 7 different one? 8 9 A. Q. It's Dimension Films. And he -- he was your entertainment lawyer I 10 guess? That's what he listed in the phone book as. 11 12 A. Q. Entertainment lawyer. So he's an 13 entertainment lawyer and also a criminal lawyer? 14 15 A. Q. He is. Okay. And he represented you when you sold 16 your life story to Dimension Films, right? 17 18 A. Q. He did. And that was your life story in conjunction 19 with the murders that we refer to as the West 20 Memphis Three, right? 21 22 A. Q. That's my life story. Well, they were -- they were particularly 23 interested in the West Memphis Three and the 24 murders, correct? 25 A. I'm not sure. I just sold them my life KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 27 of 200 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL REDACTED 9 Q. And you anticipated that they were going to 10 make a movie out of that, right? 11 A. We were led to believe that. 12 Q. And you were cool with that, right? 13 A. Well, they presented it in a way that you 14 felt comfortable with it. 15 Q. And you were comfortable having your life 16 story and your involvement with the murders and 17 the trial made into a movie, and that's why you 18 sold them the life story? 19 A. Exactly wrong. 20 Q. Well, why -- 21 A. You just sat there and said my involvement with the murders. 22 23 Q. That's a stupid question. Your involvement, meaning your stepson -- 24 whatever your involvement was, whether it be your 25 step -- how you found that he was missing, to the KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 28 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 trial, to the hubabub afterwards. I didn't say 2 that you were involved, Mr. Hobbs. But your 3 involvement, whatever that is, as the stepson, as 4 the stepfather -- Page 54 5 6 7 8 A. Q. A. Q. As a parent. As a parent. As a parent. You were comfortable with selling your story 9 and having that story made into a movie that 10 would have national release, were you not? 11 12 13 14 A. Q. A. Q. I guess. Yes or no? I guess. I'm sorry. Yes or no? 15 16 A. Q. We did sign a contract. And you anticipated that a movie with a 17 national release would be made? 18 19 20 21 A. Q. A. Q. Correct. And you were okay with that? At that time we were. All right. And actually you sat down on two 22 separate occasions and gave a detailed interview 23 to Dimension Films, did you not? 24 25 A. Q. We talked to them, yes. And they asked -- on two separate occasions, KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 29 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 at least two separate occasions? 2 A. Seemed like it. 3 Q. And you told them basically what happened 4 that day, right? Page 55 5 A. Some. We didn't go into detail like you 6 think. 7 Q. Well, I've read it. I've read the -- I've 8 read the notes. 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. Were you honest and truthful about what 11 happened? 12 A. I try to be. 13 Q. You didn't make stuff up? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And what you told those folks actually 16 happened, right? 17 A. Well, I'm not sure what I told them. It's 18 been a while ago. 19 20 21 Q. A. Q. You tried to be truthful at the time? I do. Okay. And the journals, the handwritten 22 journals that you produced in this case? 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Uh-huh. Do you remember those? I do. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 30 of 200 1 Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL You started making those journals May the Page 56 25th? 3 4 5 6 7 A. Q. A. Q. A. No, sir. When did you start making them? sometime in the nineties, early nineties. In the early nineties? Dh-huh. Before or after the murders? 8 9 10 Q. A. Q. After. Okay. Do you recall how long after the 11 murders? 12 A. I don't. 13 Q. And in the journals, you set out kind of what 14 happened from your perspective, correct? 15 A. As I seen it that night. 16 Q. And were you truthful and honest in those 1 7 journals? 18 19 A. Q. The best I could be and can be. Okay. And so what you put in the journals is 20 how you recall everything came down that night? 21 22 A. Q. Through my eyes, yes. Okay. And you have attempted to sell those 23 journals to book publishers, have you not? 24 25 A. Q. Yes. When did you start trying to sell those KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 31 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 journals to book publishers? Page 57 2 3 A. Q. I'm not sure. Can you give me a time frame, sir? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. Has it been -- when was the last -- do you 6 recall when the first time you did? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Do you recall the last time you did? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Do you recall who you sent it to? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you recall how many people you sent it to? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did anyone -- did you ever get any response 15 from any of the folks that you sent it to? 16 A. No, other than -- yes, I think I did. I 17 think one of them told me to send them $1200 and 18 they would work on it. 19 Q. Okay. Did you keep any documents or records 20 of the folks that you sent the -- the journals 21 to, the publishers? 22 A. No, not that I can recall. 23 Q. Do you ever recall telling folks that you had 24 a book deal? 25 A. Sure. KELLY HILL, CCR 50 I -353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 32 of 200 1 2 Q. A. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL You were lying? No, no, I don't think I said a had a book Page 58 3 deal, no. 4 Q. Okay. You never told anybody you had a book 5 deal? 6 A. Maybe not like you're trying to say. I might 7 have told them I was working on one, would like 8 to get one. 9 Q. Okay. But you never told anybody you had a 10 book deal? 11 12 A. Q. I'm not sure. Well, if you did, that would be a lie, 13 wouldn't it? 14 A. I'm not sure. 15 Q. Well, have you ever had a book deal? 16 A. No. 17 Q. SO if you told somebody you had a book deal, 18 that would be a lie? 19 A. I might have told somebody I was working on 20 one at the time. 21 Q. Do you consider yourself an honest man, Mr. 22 Hobbs? 23 24 A. Q. I try. Who else have you sold your life story to 25 other than Dimension Films? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 33 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Nobody that I can recall. So if you -- if someone else -- so you've Page 59 3 never testified to that -- or not testified -- 4 you've never said that, that you sold your life 5 story or had a deal to sell your life story to 6 somebody else? 7 8 9 10 A. Q. A. Q. I'm not sure. You're not sure or you didn't? I don't recall saying something like that. And do you recall any other efforts or 11 discussions with folks to sell your story, life 12 story, to other entities, for book deals or movie 13 deals or anything like that? 14 15 16 A. Q. A. Well, we've always talked about books. Dh-huh. But I don't know of anyone else that I've 17 talked to to buy it. The HBO made a couple of documentaries. 18 19 20 Q. A. Q. Okay. Right. What about movies or films? And that's Paradise Lost and Paradise 21 Lost 2? 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. It is. Any other films? No. Were you compensated with regard to the HBO KELLY HILL, CCR 50 I-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 34 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 60 1 films about the murders? 2 A. No, sir. 3 Q. Did you -- you signed releases so that you 4 could appear in those, right? 5 A. I'm not -- I don't remember. 6 Q. You were okay with being in those? 7 A. Well, we we all talked about it. 8 Q. Who's we? 9 A. Every family involved. 10 Q. What did you -- of the three little boys? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. All right. And what do you recall discussing 13 with the family of the three little boys about 14 the two HBO movies? 15 A. Some of us didn't want to do it, some of them 16 wanted to do it. 17 18 Q. A. How did you come out on that? How did you come out, I don't recall. They Q. Did you watch the video - - the documentaries? A. Well, I did. Q. What do you think of them? A. Totally wrong. Q. In what respects? A. The portrayal. 25 24 19 were going to do it anyway. 20 21 22 23 KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 35 of 200 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Portrayal of who, you? No. Of who? The convicted. How was it totally wrong? They kind of portray them as being innocent. Page 61 7 Q. Okay. How else were the documentaries 8 totally wrong? 9 10 A. Q. I couldn't tell you. You've never been deposed before, have you, 11 Mr. Hobbs? 12 13 14 A. Q. A. Been where? Deposed, had to do this before? No. 15 16 17 Q. A. Q. Okay. No. Okay. Never testified in court before? Never been a party to a lawsuit 18 before? You have to answer out loud? 19 20 21 A. Q. No. No. Okay. MR. THOMAS: I think he's been a 22 party in a divorce proceeding. 23 MR. DAVISON: I understand that. 24 25 Q. A. I meant more of a civil. No, sir. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 36 of 200 1 Q. Okay. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Where did you live before that? REDACTED Page 64 2 3 4 5· 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. On Macon Road. What address? I don't remember. Is it a house? It was. Did you own that house? Rented. Who did you rent it from? I don't recall his name. Did he live there, too? No. He lived in Mississippi. Okay. Was that in Tennessee? The Macon Road house was in Tennessee. How long have you lived in Tennessee? Since '94. Consistently since that time you've lived 18 there? You have to answer out loud. 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. Uh-huh. Yes. Okay. Where do you currently work? 24 Q. How long have you worked there? 25 A. A little over two years. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 37 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 shows up looking for his son, right? Page 80 Correct. Then what happened? We just split up and start looking for them. 2 3 4 5 A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Split up -- 6 A. Dawn stays at the home and says she'll wait 7 by the phone in case somebody called. I take my 8 daughter over to a friend's home. little kids also. 9 10 11 Q. A. Who is that? David Jacoby and his wife Bobbie, they had David goes with me and we 12 start riding around looking for the little boys. 13 At the same time the Byers and Mark and Melissa 14 are riding around looking for their boy, and we 15 continue this for all the way up to the next 16 morning. fill in a few -- few blanks. 17 18 Q. Okay. I need to fill in a few -- obviously How long were you 19 at Mr. Jacoby's house? 20 A. Long enough to drop my daughter off and see 21 if he'd go help me. 22 Q. And did he go help you? 23 A. He went around with me and we rode around 24 looking, he sure did, all the way up till early 25 in the morning. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 38 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 81 1 Q. Well, let's back up. So what -- what time 2 do you recall what time you left Amanda at Mr. 3 Jacoby's house? 4 5 A. Q. No, I don't. Do you recall how -- and you and Mr. Jacoby 6 rode around in a car looking? 7 A. We did. 8 Q. Your car or his car? 9 A. Probably mine. 10 Q. What kind of car were you driving? 11 A. I don't remember. 12 Q. Where did you drive around? 13 A. The whole city of West Memphis. 14 Q. Just in your neighborhood or just all -­ 15 A. The whole city of West Memphis. 16 Q. Okay. Did you play any Guitar Hero while you 17 were at Mr. Jacoby's? You don't remember playing Guitar Hero at Mr. 18 19 A. Q. I don't recall. I don't remember that. 20 Jacoby's for a while? A. Not that day. 21 22 Q. I don't remember. You used to play Guitar Hero a lot at his 23 house, right? Never played Guitar Hero at his house? 24 25 A. Q. No. Never. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 39 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 82 I played guitars at his house. 1 2 A. Q. Guitars. I'm sorry. 3 A. But not the game. 4 Q. I apologize. Do you recall playing guitars 5 at his house that night? 6 A. No. 7 Q. You don't recall or you didn't? 8 A. I don't recall. 9 Q. Did you smoke any marijuana while you were at 10 his house? 11 A. No. 12 Q. That night? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Do any other drugs while you were at his 15 house that night? 16 A. No. 17 Q. While you were out looking for the boys, 18 prior to the time that you went to pick Pam up at 19 work, did you ever find the boys? 20 A. No. 21 Q. If somebody testifies that they saw you with 22 the boys that night? 23 24 A. Q. Do what? If somebody testified that they saw you and 25 the boys, would they be lying? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 40 of 200 1 2 3 A. Q. A. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Uh-huh, we did. Was it working? Sure. Page 84 4 Q. Okay. So you and Mr. Jacoby so you 5 dropped your daughter Amanda off at Mr. Jacoby's, 6 and you and Mr. Jacoby drove around allover West 7 Memphis looking for the three little boys? 8 9 A. Q. Good answer. Well, that's not my answer. That's your 10 testimony, right? 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. It is. Okay. And you never found them? We never. Never saw them? Never. At some point, then you -- what time did you 17 stop looking with Mr. Jacoby? 18 A. David had to be at work May the 6th roughly 19 a.m., early a.m. May the 6th. 20 Q. When did you call the police to report that 21 your son was missing? 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. When we picked Pam up from work. Which was? 9:00 p.m., May the 5th. 9:11 exactly, correct? KELLY HILL, CCR 50 I-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 41 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL I don't remember that. Was there a point in time when you went home Page 108 3 and left Pam at home? 4 5 6 A. Q. A. No. So Pam was with you all night? Or her dad and mom, they come down and we 7 went in separate vehicles. There was a time when 8 me and David rode around. There was a time when 9 me and Pam rode around. There was a time we all 10 followed each other around. 11 Q. From -- I want to specifically focus on what 12 happened, say, between 1:00 in the morning and 6:00 in the morning. 13 14 15 A. Q. Where were you? With family and friends and the police. And there was -- so it's your testimony there 16 was never a point and time when you were alone 17 between 1:00 and 6:00 a.m.; is that your 18 testimony, sir? I believe that's correct. 19 20 A. Q. Okay. And were you out searching this entire 21 time or were you at home? 22 23 24 A. Q. A. Searching. So you never were at home? Well, there was a time we went home. I'm not 25 sure what time, but, yeah, there was a time we KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 42 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 went home. Page 109 2 Q. And then after you went home, did you go back 3 out? 4 5 6 A. Q. A. Sure. And did Pam go with you? Yeah. 7 Q. Okay. Where did you go searching then? 8 A. Robin Hood, riding around West Memphis, at 9 the school. 10 Q. And did you do -- there's been some 11 discussion in the media over the years about you 12 doing laundry the evening of the 5th or the 13 morning of the 6th; do you recall that? 14 15 16 17 A. Q. A. Q. Didn't happen. You didn't do any laundry? No, I didn't. So if someone were to testify that they saw 18 you doing laundry in the morning of the -- the 19 evening of the 5th or morning of the 6th, beds 20 bed sheets, drapes, curtains, clothes, all that 21 crap, all that stuff, they would be lying? 22 23 A. Q. Most definitely. Would you agree with me, that under the 24 circumstances, that if you had done laundry, that 25 that would have been a most unusual time to do KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 43 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 nothing wrong with that, is there? Page 113 2 3 A. Q. I don't know. Well, you didn't think you did anything wrong 4 when you repeated what the Medical Examiner said 5 in court, did you? 6 A. That's what he said. 7 Q. Well, did you think you were saying or doing 8 anything when you repeated what was said in 9 court? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Okay. After you divorced Pam, or maybe even 12 before you divorced Pam, you had a girlfriend, 13 didn't you? 14 15 A. Q. That would have been after. Okay. After you divorced Pam. You had a 16 girlfriend, right? 17 A. I had a lady friend. 18 Q. What was her name? 19 A. One of them was Sharon Nelson. 20 Q. Okay. When you start -- when did you start 21 dating Ms. Nelson? 22 A. I couldn't tell you. 23 Q. Is she an honest lady? 24 A. Well, you might want to ask her. 25 Q. I'm asking you. Do you have an opinion as to KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 44 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 whether or not she's an honest and truthful lady? Page 114 she says? A. Sure do. Q. Why? A. Because somebody. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. Q. I don't know. Do you have any reason to doubt anything that of the statement that she made to 9 Q. And what statement are you referring to? 10 A. The one that you have a copy of. 11 Q. Okay. You don't know what statements I have. 12 What statement are you -­ 13 A. I do, too. 14 Q. What statement are you referring to? 15 A. The one you have a copy of made by Ms. Sharon 16 Nelson. 17 Q. Well, what did she say that causes you to 18 question whether or not she's an honest and 19 truthful woman? 20 A. She made the statement that I told her that I 21 discovered the boys' body before the police. 22 Q. What else did she say? 23 A. I couldn't tell you. 24 Q. Did you ever tell her that? 25 A. Never, not one time in my life. KELLY HILL, CCR 50 I-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 45 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 is, is after the DNA results, you were informed 2 by the DNA results, you picked up or you had 3 somebody pick the phone and call the media 4 yourself, didn't you? Page 120 5 6 A. Q. I don't remember that. You don't remember reaching out to the media 7 to get your story out about the DNA prior to -- Sure. You did, didn't you? After the fact. After what fact? That they corne up with some new DNA. 8 9 10 11 12 13 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Right. But it was before the -- it was 14 before you were interviewed by the police that 15 you reached out to the media, isn't it? 16 17 A. Q. I'm not sure. It was before they filed their habeas corpus 18 that you reached out to the media, wasn't it? 19 20 A. Q. I'm not sure. Who reached out -- did you reach out to the 21 media or was that Mr. Sampson or someone else? 22 23 24 A. Q. A. The media carne looking for me. But didn't you call the media? Well, the media carne looking for me. I went 25 and got ahold of Mr. Sampson and asked him if he KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 46 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 121 1 would talk to the media, because I was tired of 2 them. 3 Q. You called Jamie Roach, didn't you -- Janice 4 Broach? You called Janice Broach, didn't you? 5 A. I've called Janice several times. 6 Q. And who is Janice Broach? 7 A. She's Janice Broach. She's a reporter. For who? Local TV station. Channel 5 in Memphis. Do they have a network affiliation, like NBC That one of the networks? Channel 5. Q. A. Q. A. Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 or ABC Fox? 14 A. I'm not sure. Seems like they do, but I'm 15 not sure. 16 Q. Okay. And how many times over the years have 17 you reached out to Ms. Broach? 18 A. I've talked to her a few times, but I'm not 19 sure how many. 20 21 22 23 24 Q. A. Q. A. Q. More than five? I imagine. More than so? I couldn't tell you. How many times have you called her about a 25 story? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 47 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL I'm not sure. Isn't it true, Mr. Hobbs, that prior to the Page 122 3 time the D -- that the new DNA results were made 4 public, that you called Ms. Broach, told her 5 about the results, and that you wanted to talk to 6 her about it? 7 8 9 10 11 12 A. I'm not sure about that. Q. You did do it, though, didn't you? A. I'm not sure. Q. You or somebody on your behalf? A. I'm not sure. Q. You're not sure. Well, who would know? If 13 Ms. Broach testifies to that, do you think she's 14 a liar? 15 16 A. Q. No, I like -- I trust her. You think -- so if she said that you did, you 17 think that would be right? 18 19 A. Q. Well, I don't know what she would say, but -­ If someone were to testify that you contacted 20 the media, prior to the public release of the 21 DNA, in an effort to get your side of the story 22 out on the DNA, would that be a lie? 23 A. I don't know. I don't recall that. 24 Q. Well, did you contact -- did you contact the 25 media and try to get your side of the story out? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 48 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 A. I did at one point. 2 Q. When was that? 3 A. After all this stuff was going on. 4 Q. What stuff are you talking about? 5 A. They had my DNA supposedly out there, and 6 people were looking at me like he was a suspect. 7 That's when I wanted my story out there. Page 123 8 Q. And this was before you were interviewed by 9 the police, right, because the police were 10 responding to all -- 11 12 A. Q. I'm not sure about that. The police were responding to all the 13 questions and public inquiry about whether or not 14 it was your DNA found in the ligature of that 15 little boy, right? 16 A. I'm not sure. The police have never told me 17 that it was my DNA. 18 Q. Well, didn't the police and some of the press 19 say, that, yeah, it was your DNA, but that it got 20 there by -- what do they call it -- transfer? 21 22 A. Q. Okay. Didn't the police -- didn't the police say 23 that? 24 MR. THOMAS: Objection. That's a 25 hearsay statement. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 49 of 200 1 A. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Well, you might need to ask them, because I Page ]25 2 don't know. 3 4 5 6 Q. A. Q. A. Do you think it was your hair? No. Why not? It could have been. 7 Q. Could have been. Do you know what percentage 8 of the population matched that hair? 9 A. Seemed like it was one in -- versus two or 10 three million. One in two or three million? 11 12 Q. A. I'm just guessing. There were statistics on 13 it. 14 Q. One or two -- two or three million match or 15 one or two in two or three million can be 16 excluded? foundation. He's not an expert on DNA or Well, there's a big difference, isn't there? 17 18 19 20 21 A. Q. A. Whichever. I'm not sure. MR. THOMAS: Objection, lack of 22 statistics. 23 Q. Who -- who first told you about the DNA 24 match? 25 A. Ron Lax. KELLY HILL, CCR 50 I-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 50 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 Q. And who is Mr. Lax? Page 126 2 A. He is a one of the investigators for 3 Damien Echols. 4 Q. And what did you say when Mr. Lax told you 5 that your DNA was found in the ligature of one of 6 the knots that tied up the three little boys? 7 A. I don't remember what all was said. I 8 probably cussed him. You don't like him, do you? I don't know him. I've met him through this. You don't like him, do you? 9 10 11 12 Q. A. Q. A. I met him through this. He has -- he could 13 have had a better attitude. 14 Q. Would it be fair to say you're not going to 15 exchange Christmas cards? 16 17 18 19 20 A. Q. A. Q. A. Exactly. Do you recall what Mr. Lax told you? Oh, yeah. What did he tell you? What are you going to do when I sic the dogs 21 on you. 22 Q. Meaning meaning what to you? 23 A. Ask him. 24 Q. Well, when he told you, what are you going to 25 do when I sic the dogs on you, what did you KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 51 of 200 1 Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Your brother-in-law was shott thought right t Page 137 2 with a handgun? 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. He was hit with a bullet. And whose gun did the bullet come from? Mine. And who was holding the gun when it went off? I was. And the gun was loaded with hollow point 9 bullets t right? 10 11 A. Q. Correct. And you were charged -- criminal charges were 12 brought against YOU t right? 13 14 15 16 A. Q. A. Q. And soon dropped. Were you ever convicted at all on that? NOt sir. No. What -- we'll come back to that in a 17 little bitt Mr. Hobbs. Who's Jackie Hicks? That's Pam's dad. Myex-father-in-law. What did you think of him? I respected him. Honest t truthful fellow? Pretty good man. Pretty good man? Well t there was a Sr. and a Jr. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. I'm talking about the Sr. I'm sorry. KELLY HILL, CCR 50 I-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 52 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 141 I'm sorry? 1 2 Q. A. No. I might have heard she thought I didn't 3 like him or something, but you'll have to ask 4 her. 5 6 Q. A. Okay. Who's Judy Saddler? Pam has a sister named Judy. I don't know 7 her last name. 8 Q. Younger sister, older sister? 9 A. Younger. 10 Q. Do you like Judy? 11 A. I tried to like them all. 12 Q. Do they like you? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Why -- do you understand why not? 15 A. They think I killed their brother. 16 Q. Jackie, Jr. And they also think you killed 17 Stevie, don't they? 18 A. They do. I've heard that. 19 Q. As a matter of fact, they've been pretty 20 vocal in the press about that, haven't they? 21 A. I've heard that. 22 Q. I'm sorry? 23 A. I have heard that. 24 Q. And they've been pretty vocal in the press 25 for a couple of years, hadn't they? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 53 of 200 press and the media for a couple of years about the Hicks family thinking you killed Stevie! haven't you? A. The Hicks and others. Q. The Hicks and others. For a couple of years! 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL They have. And you've had to defend yourself from the Page 142 8 you've had to defend yourself about being a 9 murderer or one of the murderers; isn't that 10 right? the last couple of yours! that's just on top of it; that's just new proof or allegations about the same thing! isn't it? A. Uh-huh. Q. I'm sorry. You have to answer out loud. You have to answer out loud. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. Q. A. Q. A. I have. And this DNA and everything that's come up in Yes. Yes. A lot of people has drug my name into it over 22 this. 23 Q. And that's been -- that's been really since 24 shortly after the convictions! right? The 25 Paradise Lost 2 came out and raised all kinds of KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 54 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 questions about who the right -- you know, who 2 the murderers were and 3 A. Not about me. Not about me. 4 Q. When did you start to get in the press, sir, 5 and having to defend yourself about allegations 6 that you were the murderer or one of the 7 murderers? Page 143 8 A. If I had said anything it was within the past 9 couple years. 10 Q. Past couple of years? 11 A. Uh-huh. Pam's sister. Younger or older? Younger. 12 13 14 15 16 Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Honest Who's Paula Hicks, another sister? do you like -- bla-bla-bla. Do you 17 like her? Do you like Paula? 18 19 A. Q. I try to like them all. Try to like them all. Do they like you -- 20 does she like you? 21 A. No. 22 Q. No. Because she thinks you killed Jackie, 23 Jr., and also Stevie, right? 24 25 A. Q. I guess. I mean, that's what they told you, right? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 55 of 200 1 2 3 4 5 A. Q. A. Q. A. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL That's what I heard. And that's what they told the press, right? Uh-huh. You have to answer out loud. I don't know if Paula -- I don't know if Page 144 6 Paula has said it to the press, but I have heard 7 it amongst the family. 8 Q. And you've heard it in the community, right? 9 A. Well, not really in the community. I just 10 heard it on TV, newspapers. 11 12 13 14 15 Q. And that's over the last several years? A. No. Q. No? A. Last couple of years. Q. Last couple of years. When you say couple, 16 what-- When the DNA results carne out? Exactly. And at that point, everything just piled on 17 18 19 20 A. Q. A. Q. Two. I think this all started in '07. 21 top of one another, didn't it? 22 23 A. Q. Yeah. Yeah. David Jacoby, good friend of yours? 24 25 A. Q. He still is. Do you like him? KELLY HILL, CCR 50 1-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 56 of 200 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL During the trials and after. Carne up in the -- HBO documentary. Carne up in some of the books, too? Right. How many books have been written about these Page 151 7 murders? 8 9 10 11 12 A. Q. A. Q. A. I'm not sure. One, two, three, four, half a dozen? I'm not sure. Have you read any of them? I read some of the Devil's Knot, but, no, I 13 haven't read more than that piece of that book. What part of the Devil's Knot did you read? 14 15 Q. A. I don't know. Just starting at the front and 16 read some of it, and tossed it in the trash. 17 Q. You don't own you don't have any books 18 you don't own any books? 19 20 A. Q. No. Have you sued any of the publishers or 21 authors of those books? Commercial Newspaper started. 22 23 A. We put a stop to one during the trials that They were taking 24 our story and they made a book about it, and we 25 put a stop to that. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 57 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 this, and then you can corne back and talk to me. Page 159 2 Q. Was this someone who was a private -- your 3 understanding was a private citizen, or was it 4 someone associated -- 5 6 7 8 9 A. Q. A. Q. A. A private investigator. I understand. Hired by Lori Davis. Hired by Lori Davis. Okay. Damien Echols' wife. What happened? 10 11 Q. A. Yes, sir. When did this happen? After the Stu incident. 12 Q. Okay. And so this was within the last month 13 or so? 14 A. Last couple of months. Two or three months 15 ago. 16 Q. Okay. And has there been any follow-up with 17 regard -- with the police on that? 18 A. I'm not sure. 19 Q. Do you have any reason to believe the Dixie 20 Chicks or Ms. Pasdar were involved in that at 21 all? 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. I don't know. I'm sorry? I don't know. You don't know. Okay. Any other reports? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 58 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 A. No, not that I know of. Page 160 2 Q. Okay. 3 MR. DAVISON: We would ask for those 4 reports, Cody. 5 Q. Let me hand you what's been marked as Exhibit 6 2, Mr. Hobbs, which is a copy of the lawsuit that 7 you caused to be filed against Ms. Pasdar and the 8 Dixie Chicks, and ask if you have seen that 9 document before? 10 (Deposition Exhibit No. 2 was 11 marked. ) 12 A. I have. 13 Q. And when is the first time you saw it? 14 A. When we sat down and put it together. 15 Q. And who is the we? 16 A. My attorneys. 17 Q. Cody? 18 A. And Mr. Ted. 19 Q. I'm sorry? 20 A. Both of my attorneys. 21 Q. Both of your attorneys. Did you look at 22 drafts of it or was it presented to you, here, it 23 is, let's go? My question is, did you see drafts 24 of it before it was filed? 25 A. Huh-uh. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 59 of 200 I seen it before it was filed. 1 2 3 4 Q. A. Q. I'm sorry. All right. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL You did not? You have to answer When you saw it, did you read Page 161 5 through it and make sure it was true and correct? 6 7 A. Q. I did. Did you make any changes to it as -- as it 8 was being drafted? 9 10 A. Q. No, I don't think so. You don't think so. Is everything in this 11 complaint, to your knowledge, true and correct, 12 sir? 13 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a 14 legal conclusion. 15 Q. I'm just asking to your knowledge, are you 16 aware of anything in here that's not right? Huh-uh. 17 18 A. Q. No. So you stand by everything factually 19 that's alleged in this complaint? And you were okay with your lawyer issuing a 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. I do. You do. I did. And you authorized it to be filed? 24 Press Release about the filing? 25 A. I wasn't aware of that, but I'm okay with it. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 60 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 162 1 Q. You're okay with it. All right. Let me go 2 through a couple of things in here, Mr. Hobbs. 3 Paragraph 1 says you're a resident of Memphis, 4 Tennessee. And you've lived in Memphis, 5 Tennessee for a number and number of years, have 6 you not? 7 8 9 10 A. Q. A. Q. I have. And you work in Memphis, Tennessee? I have. And your circle of friends are in Memphis, 11 Tennessee? 12 13 14 15 16 A. Q. A. Q. A. Well, not only that, but there are some. The majority of your friends are there? Okay. Is that right? Okay. 17 Q. Is that is that yes? All right. 18 19 A. Q. Yes. Yes. And any harm that had been caused 20 or suffered by you as a result of things that are 21 in the complaint would have -- you would have 22 suffered in Tennessee, correct? 23 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a 24 legal conclusion. 25 Q. You can still answer. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 61 of 200 1 A. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Well, my name was spread all around Arkansas, Page 163 2 all around the country. 3 4 Q. A. Uh-huh. All around the world by a group of narrow 5 minds. By a group of -- I'm sorry? Narrow mind. 6 7 8 Q. A. Q. Narrow minds. What's the group; is that that 9 West Memphis Three website and 10 11 A. Q. It's everybody involved. Which would be the West Memphis Three web, 12 the 13 A. Even your client, sir. 14 Q. Even my client. Okay. But it would be the 15 West Memphis Three, it would be the internet, it 16 would be -- it would be -- Where this was found. Seems like this right here was found on the 17 18 19 A. Q. A. -- Lori. It would be the defense team? 20 internet, too. 21 Q. And you read it -- when you read it, you were 22 in Tennessee, right? 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Probably. Why did you sue in Arkansas? My case originated in Arkansas. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 62 of 200 1 2 3 Q. A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL How so? The murders of our children. So the case really he evolves all the way Page 164 4 back to the murders, correct? 5 6 7 A. Q. A. It started in Arkansas. And it's been continuous? I've had attorneys tell me in Tennessee, your 8 fight is in Arkansas, take it to Arkansas. done that. I have taken it back across the river 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Who told you that? Attorneys in Tennessee. Which attorneys? I couldn't tell you. When? So I have done this. When did they tell you? When I talked to them about it. When? So I had -- I don't know when. So I have 20 to Arkansas where I'm a native of. 21 Q. Okay. And so just so -- your fight is in 22 Arkansas because the murders were in Arkansas? 23 A. And everything else that's happened. You 24 know, your client corning to our state and bashing 25 my name, throwing my name around. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 63 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 168 I'm just asking what he meant when 1 2 parse them. MR. DAVISON: I'm not asking him to 3 he said that. 4 MR. THOMAS: He doesn't know what 5 parse is. Read it. You've got a little more 6 education than he does. 7 8 9 Q. A. Q. You can answer the question, Mr. Hobbs. I'm not going to answer it. Why not? 10 11 A. Because my attorneys. MR. THOMAS: You can answer it to 12 the best -- 13 Q. He hasn't instructed you not to answer. 14 MR. THOMAS: Answer it to the best 15 of your ability. questions. He'll tell you -- and trust me, he's a good 16 17 18 Q. lawyer. He'll tell you when not to answer my So my question is, what did you mean 19 when you said that? 20 A. That he doesn't think that the evidence has 21 anything to do with him and it belongs to 22 somebody else. 23 Q. Well, you understand, from all of the press 24 and all of your dealings, that none of the 25 defendants, the West Memphis Three defendants' KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 64 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 DNA were found on any of the victims, were they? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. The only DNA that was found was DNA that 4 is -- has been publicly linked to you and/or Mr. 5 Jacoby; isn't that right? Page 169 6 7 foundation. MR. THOMAS: Objection, lack of 8 9 A. Q. Yeah. Well, you understand, from reading the press 10 and talking to the police 11 A. The police has never told me, that was your 12 hair. 13 Q. But they said it's linked to you. They can't 14 exclude you, can they? They said it could be one of. 15 16 A. Q. Right. And the percentage of folks that 17 would be -- that would be matched is -- 18 19 A. If it was my hair -- MR. THOMAS: Objection, lack of 20 foundation and personal knowledge. 21 22 23 24 25 Q. I'm sorry? A. If it was my hair? Q. Right. A. I raised that boy. Q. You raised Stevie? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 65 of 200 1 2 A. Q. I did. All right. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL And so it's possible it's your Page 170 3 hair, but it just got there because Stevie was in 4 your house all the time, right? 5 6 A. Q. He lived with me. He lived with you. As a matter of fact, 7 that's what Mr. Sampson said in the public, isn't 8 it, well, it could be his. I mean, we're not 9 saying it's not, because it could be transfer, 10 and he was -- Stevie lived at the house all the 11 time, right? 12 13 14 15 A. Q. A. Q. Uh-huh. You have to answer out loud. Yes. And you authorized Mr. Sampson -- you know, 16 you said, Mr. Sampson, we need to get this 17 message out; that's what we need to tell folks, 18 right? 19 20 A. Q. Right. And you've never publicly denied that it's 21 your hair, have you? 22 A. I've never been convinced it was my hair, 23 and, yes, I have said, I don't believe it was my 24 hair. 25 Q. Why do you say that? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 66 of 200 1 A. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Because I don't believe it was my hair. If Page ]7] 2 it was, I don't care. 3 Q. You don't care if it was your hair, because 4 Stevie was at your house all the time? 5 A. He was my stepson. 6 Q. All right. How do you explain Mr. Jacoby's 7 DNA I don't have no explanation for that. 8 9 A. MR. THOMAS: Objection to the 10 characterization that it's his DNA. 11 Q. How do you explain the DNA that's been 12 connected with Mr. Jacoby being found at the 13 crime scene? 14 15 A. Q. I have no explanation. Because Mr. Jacoby, at least as far -- come 16 out so far was never at the crime scene, so his 17 DNA could never get there, right? we went over this a lot this morning. 18 19 20 A. Q. I couldn't tell you. Couldn't tell you. And you spent -- I mean, You spent 21 a lot of time with Mr. Jacoby that day, right? 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. That afternoon and evening we did. Looking -- And through the night. Looking for the boys? KELLY HILL, CCR 50] -353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 67 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Yes, sir. Getting out of the car? Page 172 3 A. Dh-huh. Yes. 4 5 6 Q. A. Q. Walking around the woods? We did. Now, do you -- do you have an explanation for 7 how the DNA that's been associated with you ended 8 up not in Stevie's ligature but Michael Moore's 9 ligature? I can understand perhaps innocent 10 transfer if it was in Stevie's -- if it was in 11 the knots that tied Stevie's 12 13 A. Q. I guess secondary -- Let me -- remember we talked about earlier, 14 let me finish my question, then you get to 15 answer. 16 MR. THOMAS: Objection. 17 Argumentative. 18 19 A. You asked me MR. THOMAS: Ask him a question and 20 don't get in his face. 21 22 his face. MR. DAVISON: I'm not -- I'm not ln 23 Q. I'm just simply trying to say, can you 24 explain to me, sir, how secondary transfer could 25 get from you to the knots in the shoestrings that KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 68 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 175 1 witness. 2 MR. DAVISON: Yeah, you are. The 3 rules say -- 4 MR. THOMAS: If I was coaching the 5 witness, I'd say there was seven percent of the 6 population hasn't -- 7 MR. DAVISON: You know what? We're so one of us can't No, I don't. Do you want to keep I'm following the Then follow the Okay. MR. THOMAS: MR. DAVISON: on this? MR. THOMAS: be excluded MR. DAVISON: going on this? MR. THOMAS: MR. DAVISON: rules. 15 16 17 18 19 14 11 12 13 20 rules. 21 22 MR. DAVISON: No, you're not. MR. THOMAS: And you're asking 23 questions that he doesn't have a foundation of 24 knowledge to answer. He has no personal 25 Q. In Paragraph -- in Paragraph 13, Mr. Hobbs, KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 69 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 you say that the case involving the West Memphis 2 Three has attracted national attention focused on 3 the sufficiency of the evidence used in achieving Page 176 4 a conviction. What did you mean when you said 5 attracted national attention? 6 MR. THOMAS: Objection. You haven't 7 established the fact that he said it. 8 MR. DAVISON: He looked at the 9 complaint, reviewed it, approved it and 10 authorized it to be filed. These are his words, 11 these are his complaints against my client, and I 12 think I'm entitled to understand what he meant 13 when he said that the case has attracted national 14 attention. 15 So fine. If you want an objection as to 16 form, object as to form, otherwise, let's be 17 quiet and not coach the witness, or we're going 18 to get on the phone and call the judge. 19 MR. THOMAS: I have objected as to 20 form. It's not required to parse legal 21 terminology in pleadings. You can answer the question, Mr. Hobbs. 22 23 Q. A. All right. Let's read the question again. 24 Q. What did you mean in Paragraph 13 when you 25 said the case is attracting national attention? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 70 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 177 1 2 3 A. Q. A. Well, it has. Why do you say that? Because it's drawed a lot of attention, it 4 really has. It's brought in HBO. It's brought 5 in the Dixie Chicks. It's brought in other 6 people out there who has doubts, you know, and 7 that's their issues, not mine. 8 Q. When did the case start to draw national 9 attention, from the get-go? 10 A. Probably. 11 Q. Okay. What celebrities are you aware of that 12 have taken up the cause of the West Memphis 13 Three, in addition to Ms. Pasdar? Depp, I've heard his name. Ferrell's name. I've heard of will And I'm not sure of, you know, Johnny I mean, I've heard of some. No A. 14 15 16 17 how many others have, but you hear names from 18 time to time. People see them wearing the Free 19 the West Memphis Three T-shirts, sweatshirts, and 20 you hear that. 21 Q. There's bumper stickers on cars allover 22 town? 23 A. Sure. 24 Q. I saw one driving in this morning. Free the 25 WM3? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 71 of 200 1 A. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL They flew an airplane over Little Rock one Page ]78 2 time with a banner behind it. 3 Q. Are you aware that the Pearl Jam lead singer 4 is taking up the cause? 5 6 7 8 9 10 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I heard that. Winona Rider lS taking up the cause? Oh, well. Metallica is taking up the case? Oh, well. Oh, well? Oh, well. What do you mean by oh, well? I could care less. 11 12 13 14 A. Q. A. Q. Okay. But you would agree that it is a 15 well-known and controversial issue, right? 16 17 A. In some people's mind. MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a 18 legal conclusion. 19 Q. And it has been a well-known and 20 controversial issue for a number of years, as a 21 matter of fact, from shortly after the 22 convictions were announced, correct? 23 24 25 A. Q. A. In some people's mind. Right. I think there was a jury of 12 people that KELLY HILL, CCR 50] -353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 72 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 of the question. Page 183 2 3 4 MR. DAVISON: That's fine. MR. THOMAS: Because it assumes that 5 MR. DAVISON: You know what? You 6 just object to form. 7 MR. THOMAS: No/ I have to state the 8 basis for my objection. 9 MR. DAVISON: Only if I ask for it. 10 Only if I ask for the basis/ and I'm not. 11 Q. So my question/ sir/ is would you answer my 12 question? 13 A. What was your question? (Requested information was read.) Mr. Hobbs/ you would agree with me/ that 14 15 16 17 Q. MR. DAVISON: MR. DAVISON: Can you read it back. That's fine. 18 nothing in Ms. Pasdar's letter was new/ other 19 than the fact that it came from her/ came from 20 Natalie Maines; that's what made it new/ isn't 21 it? 22 23 A. Q. Correct. Correct. Everything else -- 24 A. She got in our business when she shouldn't 25 have. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 73 of 200 1 Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Everything else, all of the allegations, all Page 184 2 of the statements -- not allegations -- all of 3 the statements that are in there had been said 4 many times in the press before, hadn't they? 5 6 A. Q. Right. Okay. And it had been said in the national 7 press many times before, right? 8 9 A. Q. Celebrities tend to draw a different crowd. But my question is, those same facts, those 10 same statements, had been made in the national 11 press many times before, had they not? 12 13 14 15 A. Q. A. Q. Probably so. r mean, they had, hadn't they? Probably so. Probably so. And you had been having to deal 16 with the effects of those statements for many 17 months prior to the time Ms. Pasdar made her 18 letter, had you not? 19 20 21 22 23 A. Okay. Q. Well, is that a yes or no? A. That's a yes. Q. That's a yes. A. And why is she the type, when someone is 24 down, kick them down a little bit lower, put 25 their foot and smash them down. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 74 of 200 Is that what you think she did? 1 2 Q. A. Exactly. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL She can stay in Texas and mind her Page 185 3 own business. 4 5 Q. A. What else? Ain't nothing else to say. 6 Q. Nothing else to say. Okay. When you found 7 out about the letter that was posted on the 8 website, Ms. Pasdar's letter, what did you do? Got a little more mad about it. 9 10 A. Q. Okay. Just because it's one more celebrity 11 that's trying to get them a new trial? 12 13 A. Q. Taking cheap shots at me. What was the cheap shot; what in the 14 letter -- and the letter is attached? 15 A. I read the letter. 16 Q. All right. Well, I want you to point out to 17 me 18 A. Mention my name about anything. 19 Q. I'm sorry? 20 A. Cheap shot mentioning my name about anything. 21 Q. All right. 22 A. It's been done a million times. Tell that 23 woman to mind her own business. 24 Q. What else do you want to say? 25 A. That's it. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 75 of 200 1 Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL How many times does your name appear in this Page 186 2 letter? 3 4 A. Q. I don't remember. What in here is a cheap shot? What in 5 Exhibit A to your complaint, what in there is a 6 cheap shot? 7 A. My name being in there at all. 8 Q. SO she just -- you don't think she had the 9 right to bring your name -- to bring your name or 10 get involved in the -- in this debate? 11 A. Exactly. 12 Q. Why didn't she have the right to get involved 13 in the debate, Mr. Hobbs? 14 A. Who give her the right? 15 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a 16 legal conclusion. 17 Q. What is your -- do you have an understanding 18 of the First Amendment? 19 20 A. Q. Sure. What is your understanding of the First 21 Amendment of the Constitution? 22 23 24 A. Q. A. Free speech. What does that mean do you? People can shoot off if they want to. 25 Q. Okay. Was Ms. Pasdar exercising her First KELLY HILL, CCR 50 I-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 76 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 Amendment rights when she sent this letter? Page 187 2 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a 3 legal conclusion. 4 Q. I'm not asking for a legal opinion. I'm 5 asking for your opinion. Was Ms. Pasdar 6 exercising her First Amendment right, freedom of 7 speech? 8 9 A. Q. Without merit. Without merit, but she was exercising her 10 right? 11 A. Without merit. 12 Q. She has the right to say that she thinks that 13 they're entitled to a new trial; she can say 14 that, can't she? 15 16 17 18 A. Q. A. Q. She can say anything she wants. Okay. But be sure you can back it up. If she simply said, I think that the West 19 Memphis Three are entitled to a new trial, is she 20 entitled to say that? 21 22 A. Sure. MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a 23 legal conclusion. 24 Q. Do you think that she has done anything wrong 25 to you if she says that? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 77 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Humiliation. But if she just says, I think the West Page 188 3 Memphis Three got a raw deal and need a new 4 trial, that's humiliation to you? 5 A. I think that's kind of wrong to say, but 6 people shoot off stuff like that all the time. A. Yeah. It's been going on a while. Q. 16 years people have been saying they got a raw deal and they need a new trial? A. They did. They have. Q. And there's nothing wrong with Ms. Hobbs years, hadn't it -- or not 18 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. I mean, that's been going on for almost 18 16 years? 14 advocating for people to donate money to West 15 Memphis Three fund, is there? 16 17 18 19 20 A. Q. A. Q. A. Sure. So there is something wrong with that? Yeah. What's wrong with that? I wouldn't think that you should do something 21 like that. 22 Q. You shouldn't say, you can exercise your 23 rights -- rights in America and donate money to a 24 cause that you believe in? 25 A. She don't believe in that cause. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 78 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 time prior to Ms. Pasdar putting the letter on 2 the internet, right? Page 191 3 4 A. Q. It has happened. And they've been saying that a long time 5 prior to the rally on the courthouse steps in 6 Arkansas, right? 7 8 A. Q. It has happened. Well, it has happened, and it happened a long 9 time prior to the rally on 10 A. Not with my name. My name come up the same 11 year of the rally. 12 Q. Right. And your name was never mentioned at 13 the rally, was it? own business? That's not my question. 14 15 16 17 18 A. Q. A. Q. I wasn't there. Well, you sure as heck sued on it? Well, she needs to stay in Texas. She just needs to stay in Texas and mind her My 19 question is, your name was not mentioned one time 20 at the rally in Arkansas, was it? No, but it -- read between the lines, Slr. 21 22 A. MR. THOMAS: Objection, lack of 23 foundation. 24 Q. What between the lines, Mr. Hobbs, about what 25 was said at the rally? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 79 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 of foundation. Page 196 2 3 A. Q. I'm not sure. But you're certainly not aware where you were 4 misquoted? 5 6 7 A. Q. A. Oh, I'm sure that's happened. Where do you recall being misquoted? I don't have it in front of me, but I 8 wouldn't doubt if there's misquotations out 9 there. 10 Q. All right. Well, then I guess we'll -- we'll 11 go through the exhibits later and we'll see if 12 you can see where you are misquoted, or if you 13 were. 14 So how did you find out -- the rally you 15 found out because it was on the TV, right? 16 17 18 19 A. Q. A. Q. And a reporter called me. Who called you? Ms. Janice Broach. The same one you called about the DNA earlier 20 In the year? 21 22 A. Q. I've talked to Janice millions of times. How many times do you call her as opposed to 23 she calls you? 24 25 A. Q. I don't know. I mean, do you call her as many times as she KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 80 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 calls you? Page 197 2 A. Well, we don't call each other on a regular 3 basis, no. 4 Q. But when there's something -- something 5 new 6 A. Back during all these allegations, I talked 7 to Janice. 8 Q. As a matter of fact, Janice, that's the same 9 one we talked about earlier this morning when you 10 called her in the spring to let her know about 11 the DNA results, right? 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I'm not sure. I mean, that's the same Janice, right? Janice Broach, Channel 5, Memphis, Tennessee. Why have you talked to her a million times? Because I can, because I want to. And she takes your calls? Sure. And she takes your calls because it's kind of 20 an ongoing story? 21 A. Probably. And she returns my calls if I need 22 her to. 23 Q. Okay. What -- what do you recall Janice 24 you and Janice talking about the day of the 25 rally? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 81 of 200 1 2 3 4 A. Q. A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL I believe they did( yes. CNN cover it? Well( it was allover the airways again. It was all about the court filings that Page 200 5 Damien not Damien that the West Memphis 6 Three had filed though( right; that's what was 7 allover the airways ( the new evidence( the DNA 8 filings? covered. 9 10 11 A. Q. New evidence. I mean( that's what -- that's what was being It wasn't the rally where Natalie spoke 12 for three minutes( was it? 13 A. Yeah( it was there. It was on the news. 14 Q. It was mentioned( but the focus of the CNN 15 and the time and all those other articles was the 16 substance of the habeas filing( right? 17 A. I guess. I'm not sure. 18 19 Q. 3. Let me hand you what's been marked as Exhibit That( Mr. Hobbs( is a transcript of Ms. 20 Pasdar's statements at the rally( and I would 21 like you to tell mel one( where you're mentioned( 22 and( two( what do you think she said about you 23 that caused you damage? 24 (Deposition Exhibit No. 3 was 25 marked. ) KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 82 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 201 1 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a 2 legal conclusion. 3 Q. And we can break it up if you like. Where in 4 there are you mentioned by name, Mr. Hobbs? 5 You're not mentioned, are you? 6 7 A. Q. Not by name. Where -- what is said -- what does Ms. Pasdar 8 say at the rally that caused you injury? 9 MR. THOMAS: Object to form. I 10 think it calls for a legal conclusion. 11 12 13 A. Q. A. All the evidence. Where are you reading, sir? When you see the films and when you go to the 14 website, you'll learn about the case and all the 15 evidence that is there, and this is there now, 16 you just feel like what can I do. 17 18 Q. A. Okay. We know what she's talking about there. All 19 the new evidence is the crap they come up with 20 about me, which has no merit whatsoever. 21 Q. Anything else that she says that you 22 during the rally that you believe caused you any 23 injury, sir? 24 25 MR. THOMAS: Same objection. MR. DAVISON: That's fine. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 83 of 200 1 2 3 4 5 Q. A. Q. A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Or is that it? Anything else, Mr. Hobbs? I don't know. I'm sorry? I don't know. Well, see, this is my one chance where I get Page 202 6 to ask you the questions, so if there's something 7 else in this statement that you are complaining 8 about that you think caused you injury, I want to 9 know about it now. 10 MR. THOMAS: Objection. He's not 11 required to layout legal theories. 12 MR. DAVISON: I'm not asking for 13 legal theories. I'm asking -- 14 MR. THOMAS: Sure, you are. You're 15 asking -- you're asking for him to apply the 16 proof of the law, asking for legal strategy. And 17 you're asking him to say that he won't make an 18 argument later on. 19 20 Q. A. You can answer the question, Mr. Hobbs. Well, I would feel like she's saying her 21 scientifically proven statement is what they come 22 up with the stuff about me. That's it. 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Okay. No. Anything else? All right. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 84 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 of the judge and the jury testifying? 2 A. I do. 3 Q. And you did really well this morning on Page 207 4 speaking up and verbally. If I could ask you to 5 continue that this afternoon. I know sometimes 6 in the afternoon people get a little tired, and 7 voices tend to trail off. If you could speak up, 8 I'll try to do the same; is that fair? Q. All right. 9 10 A. Sounds good. Would it be -- you also spoke 11 with a woman by the name of Cathy Frye at the 12 Arkansas Democrat Gazette, correct? 13 A. I did. 14 Q. As a matter of fact, you reached out and 15 called her, right? 16 A. I think so. 17 Q. And you did, because she was another person 18 in the media that you wanted to contact and get 19 your story out about the DNA, right? 20 A. I didn't know Cathy. I just wanted someone 21 In the media and the newspaper to hear what I had 22 to say, and they assigned Cathy to this. 23 Q. Okay. And you spoke with her several times I 24 assume? 25 A. A few times. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 85 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 208 1 Q. A few times. And you spoke with her both 2 before and after Ms. Pasdar's letter appeared on 3 the internet, correct? 4 A. I'm not sure about the time frame. 5 Q. All right. Do you recall when you first A. No. Q. Okay. It was in '07, though, right? A. I'm not sure. Q. Okay. A. I don't know. I'm not sure of the dates. Q. She did - - there was an article in the 9 6 spoke with her? 7 8 12 10 11 13 Arkansas Democrat Gazette that came out in early 14 '08, correct; do you recall that article? 15 16 A. Q. I'm not sure of the date. Not the date, but you recall that the article 17 came out, right? it come out. Q. Do you recall how many articles came out in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette? A. No. Q. More than one? A. Oh, yeah. Q. Oh, yeah. How many? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I know we did an article. I'm not sure when KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 86 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 A. I don't know. 2 Q. A bunch? Page 209 3 A. I don't know. I live in Tennessee. 4 Q. All right. 5 MR. THOMAS: Just by clarification, 6 with respect to which the case as a whole or 7 written by Ms. Frye. Let me ask you -- let me show you an article, 8 9 Q. MR. DAVISON: Fair enough. 10 Mr. Hobbs, if I could. This is -- it's Exhibit 11 39. 12 13 No.1. MR. DAVISON: Ted, to Stipulation 14 Q. Mr. Hobbs, this is an article written by 15 Cathy Frye, appeared in the Arkansas Democrat 16 Gazette February 3, 2008, and ask if you -- and 17 this is one of the -- 18 19 A. Q. I remember this. Reputation is ruined, says stepdad of boy 20 killed in '93. And this was one of the articles 21 that Ms. Frye wrote, right? Looks like it. 22 23 A. Q. Yeah. You have to speak up for everybody to 24 hear. 25 A. It looks like it. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 87 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 210 1 Q. Looks like it. And in here talks about, 2 among other things, the DNA report, right? 3 4 5 6 7 A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. And how you're linked to it, correct? Okay. Well, it does that, right; you recall that? Very vaguely. 8 Q. Okay. Well, I mean, you this is one of 9 the articles you worked with 10 A. Right. I haven't read it recently, so I'm 11 not really sure. 12 Q. I appreciate that. Do you recall reading it 13 when it carne out? 14 A. Sure. I recall doing it. 15 Q. You recall doing it. Working with the 16 reporter on it? 17 18 A. Q. Right. Okay. And when you were working with the 19 reporter on it and it carne out, do you recall 20 reading it when it was published on February 3rd? 21 22 A. Q. Right. Okay. And when it carne out, do you recall 23 anything in there that you said, man, this is 24 wrong? 25 A. I recall some things that was put in there KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 88 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 that I wish she hadn't have put in there the way 2 she put it in there, I believe. Page 211 3 4 5 Q. A. Q. As you sit here -- If that's the article I'm thinking about. As we sit here today, do you recall what you 6 wished she hadn't put in there like she put in? 7 A. Her talking about my dad. And I don't know 8 sometime I think they pick up some of this 9 stuff from other people and put it in there 10 whenever you're doing an interview with them. 11 Q. There has been -- there has been some 12 discussion in the press about your relationship 13 with your father, hasn't there? 14 15 A. Q. There has. And some discussion in the press about how 16 perhaps you were abused by your father, correct? But there's been that discussion, correct? I was not. Very much so. And I guess every son loves his father. 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. There has. There has been. You love your father? One 23 of the -- as this article talks about the DNA, it 24 also talks about your linkage to the DNA that's 25 found at the scene. It talks about damage to KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 89 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 your reputation, doesn't it? Page 212 2 A. Okay. Yes. 3 Q. I mean, it does. That was one of the things 4 that you really wanted to get out to Ms. Frye, 5 which is how all of this discussion has ruined 6 your reputation, right? 7 A. Right. 8 Q. And February 3, 2008, that was a month and a 9 half after the letter posted -- the letter by Ms. 10 Pasdar, right? 11 12 A. Q. Okay. The letter by Ms. Pasdar was November 26, 13 '07, right? 14 15 A. Q. Right. And it was after -- a little more than a 16 month after the rally, because the rally was in 17 December, right? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. And this article is an attempt by you to get 20 out to the public how your reputation has been 21 ruined by the defense allegations, right? 22 A. All of the above. 23 Q. All right. No where in here do you mention 24 at all Ms. Pasdar or the rally or the Dixie 25 Chicks, do you? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 90 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 213 1 A. I don't know. I haven't read it in a while. 2 Q. Briefly look through it, sir, and tell me if 3 anywhere when you're trying to get your story out 4 to the press of where your reputation has been 5 ruined by these allegations, where in that story 6 you talk about the rally, the Dixie Chicks or Ms. 7 Pasdar. There's not a single word in there about 8 them, is there? 9 On the second page of the article it talks 10 about how in February that you learned that the 11 DNA has been linked to you, correct, February 12 '07, right? 13 A. That's when them investigators showed up at 14 my house, and they were the ones who told me. 15 16 Q. A. Right? About that. 17 Q. Right. And that's the first time you knew 18 about it? 19 20 21 22 A. Q. A. Q. Right. Right. In 16 years -- or 15 years at the time. And then it says here in March, March 7, that 23 would be March 7 of '07, right? Well, we talk about Jan»ary -- sorry -- 24 25 A. Q. I'm not sure. It doesn't have a year on it. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 91 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 February '07, and then it says on March '07, I'm 2 assuming '07, you suffered an emotional 3 breakdown. Did you suffer an emotional breakdown 4 in March of '07? Page 214 5 A. I ain't going to say what year, but, yeah, I 6 had some problems with all this crap. 7 8 9 Q. A. Q. And that was in the spring of '07, right? I ain't going to say what year. Well, what year was it? When did you have an 10 emotional breakdown, put a sign in your front 11 yard, putting your contents up for sale, and you 12 lived -- you lived in your yellow Ford pickup 13 with your teenager daughteri that was spring of 14 '07, right? And that -- and so you had the breakdown, you 15 16 A. Q. Yeah. If that's the date on here, yes. 17 were feeling the effects of all the pressure 18 building up, that was months and months prior to 19 the time that Ms. Pasdar put her letter on the 20 internet or spoke at the rally, right? Looks like it. 21 22 A. Q. All right. So she certainly didn't have any 23 result -- any -- any cause -- she didn't cause 24 any of that, emotional breakdown in '07 or the 25 living in your pickup truck with your daughter. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 92 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 217 1 Q. Who is this friend, former friend? 2 A. Larry Mayno. 3 Q. Where where does Larry Mayno live? 4 5 6 A. Q. A. Memphis, Tennessee. Do you have an address for him? Not on me. 7 8 Q. A. Do you know what part of town he lives in? I do. 9 10 Q. A. What part of town does he live in? I don't know his address. 11 12 Q. A. I asked what part? East side. 13 Q. East side. Does he work with you? when you first met him. In construction. We had worked in the past together. Where? Is he a good friend or an acquaintance? Has been. When did Larry say he I don't know how many years. When did -- but you don't recall How long have you known Larry? How do you know Larry? Okay. No. I don't know. No. Has been. Q. Q. Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. A. A. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 didn't want to be your friend anymore? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 93 of 200 1 2 A. Q. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL He never made the statement like that. Well, how would you describe your Page 218 3 relationship with him now? 4 5 A. Q. I ain't had one with him. Okay. And the reason is because Natalie 6 appeared at the rally? 7 A. The reason -- I ain't going to say the reason 8 is, but the day I went by to visit with him. 9 Q. Uh-huh. 10 A. He told me, he said, Terry, you've got all 11 these people after you, and he called out the 12 Dixie Chicks' name. And it's like he's starting 13 to believe it, because the more people got out 14 there saying my name, the more I felt like he 15 believed them. 16 Q. Okay. Did you try to convince him you didn't 17 have anything to do with it? 18 19 20 A. Q. A. I tried. What did you tell him? The truth. 21 Q. Which is? I didn't do it? 22 A. Yeah. I didn't do it, and I don't care what 23 all them yodel brains have got to say about it. 24 Q. And he didn't believe you? 25 A. I felt like he didn't. KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 94 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 219 1 Q. Okay. Okay. Well, now, the press had been 2 kind of building up or reporting the DNA findings 3 and whatnot for several months -- several months 4 beginning in the spring of '07 going forward 5 until Natalie made her letter, posted her letter, 6 right? 7 8 9 10 A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Well, I mean Sounds good. Isn't that right? Isn't that what happened? 11 Right? Let's look at document 9 in Stipulation 12 1, which is a July 20, 2007 report from Action 13 News. Action News, that's Janice Broach, right? 14 That's the lady you dealt with, right, wanted to 15 get your story out, right? 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. I mean, that's the same Janice, right? It is. Action 5 News? Right. Action News 5, that's where she works right? 22 Right? 23 24 A. Q. Right. Did she -- and this is a report of the -- she 25 reported, did they not, ChannelS News, on July KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 95 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS VS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 20, 2007, new DNA testing by the defense shows 2 that none of the genetic material recovered from 3 the murder scene link the West Memphis Three to Page 220 4 the scene. Instead, defense attorneys say, the 5 test found DNA f~om Terry Hobbs, the stepfather 6 of one of the murdered boys. They reported that 7 in July 2007, didn't they? Oh, yeah. 8 9 A. Q. Okay. Did you -- did you start to get some 10 calls from neighbors or friends when this was 11 reported by Janice? 12 A. Oh, yeah. 13 Q. All right. And was this report, July, 27th 14 report, was this a result of you reaching out to 15 her to try to get your story out? You say, I 16 have to laugh at that and say there's something 17 wrong with someone who would think that. This is 18 part of your trying to get the story out about 19 the DNA, right? It looks like it. 20 21 A. Q. Probably. It looks like it. In here, this Exhibit 9 to 22 Stipulation I, did you say all those things in 23 there? Are you accurately quoted, Mr. Hobbs? 24 A. Yeah, I guess. I don't know. 25 Q. Okay. And so you did say, if Michael Moore KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 96 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 or Christopher Byers had a piece of my hair on 2 their shoestrings, well, these little boys came 3 to my house and played with our little boy pretty 4 regularly, you said that, right? Page 22\ 5 6 A. Q. Right. And so it's also reported here by Channel 5 7 News, the DNA results also reveal, according to 8 court documents, that most of the DNA at the 9 crime scene came from the victims, but some of it 10 cannot be connected to the victims or the defendants. Hobbs said. 11 12 13 A. Uh-huh. I don't know what to make of that, It's their job to do what they do. 14 Q. You quoted that right -- quoted correctly 15 there? 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. Yeah. Q. Yeah. And some of that DNA is also linked to Mr. Jacoby, right? A. I don't know. There's one In so many million that could be him or could not be him. Same as mine. 22 Q. So it's your -- it's your belief and your 23 understanding that the DNA reports show that it's 24 pretty common to have a match like thati is that 25 your understanding? KELLY HILL, CCR 50 \-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 97 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL Page 224 1 MR. THOMAS: Objection. He can't 2 possibly know what other people thought based on 3 news report. 4 5 thinks. MR. DAVISON: I can ask what he 6 Q. Do you think it's pretty well known at least 7 your D it was out there in the press. The 8 press was reporting that your DNA was linked to 9 the crime scene? 10 A. Right, the press was reporting that. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. But it still doesn't mean that any of that 13 out there was my DNA. 14 15 16 Q. A. Q. I appreciate that. Or it doesn't mean that to me. Did you ever talk to the police about the 17 DNA? No. They never asked you about it? 18 19 20 A. Q. A. Oh, I'm not sure. I went and answered some 21 questions for them. I don't remember what kind 22 of questions we had. I done that video with 23 them. I read that thing, and that's a joke. 24 Q. What what video? The press -- the press 25 conference? KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 98 of 200 1 2 3 A. Q. A. TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL NOr no. What video r Mr. Hobbs? The one that they got me in that room asking Page 225 4 me all them questions. 5 Q. That's -- that's part of when the police -- 6 West Memphis police then interviewed you again in 7 June of '07? 8 9 10 11 A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Is that right? Sounds close. Now r how many times have you been interviewed 12 by the West Memphis police in conjunction with 13 the murders? 14 A. None probably. This one they did. I'm 15 thinking there might have been one -- one I know 16 I went and done fingerprints and feet prints r and 17 I still -- I'm still never -- not a suspect r and Please note that. 18 19 I wasn't one back then. And I have made this statement: If you think 20 I'm a suspect r call the police department r and 21 they will set you -- clear that up for you. 22 Q. On Channel 5 r July 21st r this is Document No. 23 12 in Stipulation 1 r Ms. Broach saysr now doing 24 new DNA testing shows a hair from one of the 25 boys' stepfather r Terry Hobbs r was found in KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 99 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 shoelaces to tie up the eight year -- 2 eight-year-old boys? Page 226 3 4 A. Q. So? So I'm just saying that it was reported 5 widely that your DNA was found, correct? 6 7 A. Q. Yeah. Okay. And it was reported widely well prior 8 to the time that Ms. Pasdar posted her letter or 9 appeared at the rally, right? 10 A. It was going on at the time she jumped on the 11 bandwagon. 12 Q. On Channel 5 on the 21st, they also talk 13 about finding the knife and the knife that 14 Stevie's grandfather had given him in your stuff? So? Did you have any your possession, Mr. Hobbs? 15 16 17 A. Q. A. I don't know. I think I still have his 18 pocketknife. 19 Q. You have Stevie's pocketknife? 20 A. I think so. 21 Q. And is that a pocketknife that Stevie carried 22 with him on a regular basis? 23 A. Until I found it. Until I seen my stepson, 24 who wasn't old enough to have a pocketknife, I 25 felt like. I took the pocketknife from him and KELLY HILL, CCR 50 I-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 100 of 200 TERRY HOBBS HOBBS YS. NATALIE PASDAR, ET AL 1 put it in a drawer with the rest of our 2 pocketknives. Page 227 3 Q. How would you respond to witnesses who would 4 testify that Stevie carried that knife with him 5 up until the time that he disappeared? 6 A. I think you'll find out people will say 7 anything, but they don't have the facts. 8 Q. What facts do you have to prove that you took 9 the knife from Stevie? 10 A. I was his dad. I was acting as a responsible 11 parent. Not letting a six, seven, eight-year-old 12 little boy carry a pocketknife. 13 Q. Aren't you aware that his mommy -- his mother 14 said that he carried the knife with him up until 15 the time that he disappeared? 16 A. She also said I killed the boys, too, and 17 yes, I'm very much aware of all that. 18 Q. The knives were reported in some of the in 19 the letter that Ms. Pasdar posted on the 20 internet, wasn't it? 21 22 A. Q. Okay. That's one of the things, right, that you're 23 complaining about that? characterization, complaining about the knife. 24 25 MR. THOMAS: Object to the I KELLY HILL, CCR 501-353-2220 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-3 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 101 of 200