DIR-8-1-22

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DIR - Document Imaging Report
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Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 1
Table Of Contents
Chock Full O’ Interviews
2
Assessing the Capture Market: A Q&A With Infosource’s Petra Beck
3
Toshiba Continues to Invest in the Cloud with e-BRIDGE
7
Meet Infosource: Shinichiro Oda
12
3 Sneak Peeks: Here’s a Glimpse Into What You’ll Learn at Capture
Conference 2022
15
The Evolving Landscape of Mortgage Loan Processing: Expanding
from capture to data-driven workflows is vital for success
18
Modernizing Capture in the Health Insurance Market
21
Capture Industry Trends (and Shaquille O’Neal: A Conversation
with Epsons’s Tim Anderson
25
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 2
Chock Full O’ Interviews
I’ve been editing/writing for the better part of 25 years now
and I’ve never before had an issue of . . . anything this full of
Q&A interviews.
While unintentional, I do think you’ll enjoy all of them.
Whether it’s our own Petra Beck explaining the ongoing
evolution of the industry based on Infosource’s ongoing
research or our Capture Conference 2022 (Register before
it’s too late!) Sneak Peeks – video and transcriptions or
meeting our man in Japan, Shinichiro Oda; there’s a wealth
of insights.
And, to balance it out, I managed to sneak in one “regular” article with Toshiba.
Regardless, enjoy and, as always, thanks for reading,
Bryant Duhon
Editor-in-Chief, Document Imaging Report
bdu@info-source.com
Comments, criticisms, and witticisms welcomed.
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 3
We’ll be sharing highlights of the research, once □nal, in a
future issue. To acquire access to those numbers, contact
Petra Beck (
) or Ralph Gammon
(
).
pb@info-source.com
rg@info-source.com
How did the Capture market do last year, or do you
call it IDP these days?
 Well, I really wished we had a better term. In particular one that is commonly
used and re□ects the market scope. It appears that the term IDP (intelligent document
processing) is increasingly used interchangeably with Capture. This year I see a large
portion of vendors that offer any type of Input Management using IDP to describe their
solutions. This while, interestingly, end customers do not relate to the term.
Beck:
So, what do you call the market now?
 I am calling it Capture & IDP in the reports this year. Most importantly, I describe
the market as “solutions for the automation of information-intensive business
processes that involve unstructured business inputs.” It is de□nitely a mouthful,
hopefully we can establish a better term.
Beck:
Have you □nished your annual market assessment?
 We are still in the □nal stages of the analysis and the forecasting, but I can give
you a couple of previews today and follow up with the formal data in an upcoming
issue.
Beck:
Let me □rst answer your question about the development of the market last year. The
market continues to recover from the 2020 slowdown caused by the pandemic, but we
saw different levels of recovery in the various geographies, industries, etc.
It’s nice to have in-house experts to talk to. As Petra,
Senior Analyst, Software, and Ralph Gammon continue to
□nalize their research, we asked her what she thinks
about the state of the Capture industry.
Assessing the Capture Market: A Q&A
With Infosource’s Petra Beck
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 4
From a regional perspective, the demand in the Americas region was particularly
strong last year, covering some projects that had been delayed in 2020 in North
America. Asia’s recovery was not as strong as we had expected, we attribute this to
ongoing supply chain issues that impacted the major Capture markets, Japan and
China, and continued lock-down measures in China. We do expect an accelerated
recovery of the Asian market in the next few years driven by an increasing demand for
automation supported by government initiatives and increasingly ful□lled by local
solution providers.
We also saw a mixed bag of demand in the different industries. Banking and Insurance,
the industries that present our largest vertical segments, recovered strongly, and grew
at healthy double-digit rates. These markets are going through structural changes
caused by increasing competition from FinTech providers and pressure to meet
increasing customer expectations. In the smaller segments we saw explosive growth in
the Logistics and Transportation sector in 2021, in line with the material growth in this
vertical caused by the changes in consumer behavior. On the other side, demand in the
Public sector, in particular demand from National Governments, and demand in the
Healthcare sector was □at or declining compared to the already low sales in 2020.
Any signs of a slowdown in capture market growth?
 No, quite the contrary. Apart from the temporary slowdowns caused by the
pandemic that I mentioned, we do not see the demand in this market slowing any time
soon. We expect the latest dynamics related to the shortage of skilled knowledge
workers and, to a degree, the in□ation to increase the demand for automation and
digitalization of business processes.
Beck:
My analysis of market maturity that I showed at our conference last year highlights the
early stage of maturity with at least one third of processes being handled completely
manually and only a very small portion of the information-intensive processes being
truly automated from end-to-end. We expect the appetite of organizations in the
private as well as the public sector for meeting increasing CX (customer experience)
expectations while ensuring operating ef□ciency to rise and consequently cause more
demand for Advanced Capture and Capture-related RPA solutions to increase.
What is one under-the-radar trend (technology and/or business-related) that is
going to impact the capture industry? 
 Maybe one market trend that is not very prominent yet but will impact the
Capture market is the shortage of skilled knowledge workers. This has a variety of
implications. Firstly, it affects about every single industry where a shortage of staff is
impacting customer service and the operational processes including the management
of transactional processes.
Beck:
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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Secondly, there is an increasing shortage of IT staff, which causes delays in the
implementation and updates of solutions that could bring some relief for the □rst
challenge. This increases the demand for solutions that are modular, services-based,
and more user friendly in their implementation. Some vendors are putting a strong
emphasis on offering these low-code, no-code solutions, and as always, some are riding
the buzzword wave, but this overall trend will have a key impact on the industry.
In the Global Capture Vendor Matrix, you had IBM, OpenText, and ABBYY as
market leaders. Does the research show that market leadership as stable or is
there another company emerging to challenge these three stars? 
 In our annual market assessment, we take a selection of Capture vendors
through a multifaceted assessment in two dimensions:
Beck:
□. Their strategy and capabilities.
□. Their demonstrated sales and marketing performance.
In particular the second dimension includes aspects that have a direct impact on
market share, which probably caused you to assume that vendors we classi□ed as
leaders have the highest market share. The three global players you mentioned are
de□nitely in the top 5 global share positions. The large RPA vendors are enjoying
signi□cant growth and are increasingly pursuing traditional Capture use cases that
include unstructured and semi-structured inputs. While they are not (yet) threatening
the top 5 Capture vendors, they have established themselves solidly in the top 10 list
and will continue on their growth journey.
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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This industry is changing fast with new vendors popping up like mushrooms after
a spring rain. Who are a few emerging companies who you think will impact the
industry and, brie□y, why/how? 
 Indeed, it appears that a new vendor pops up every time I do a Web search. We
see a lot of start-ups, in particular with AI-based platforms they are using to target
what we call Information Capture. But of course they do not associate themselves with
the term “Capture.”
Beck:
The number of RPA players who offer Capture solutions also continues to grow. Plus
there are quite a few BPOs who increasingly shrink-wrap automation solutions they
have developed for their operation and offer them as Capture solutions. Some of the
startups I mentioned have been able to attract quite amazing investments from VCs
and have the potential to disrupt the market – assuming that they will use the VC
money wisely. Rossum is de□nitely a company to mention in this context.
Regarding the impact on the industry, these startups may not be able to compete
directly with the large multinationals, but they have the potential to establish
themselves in a niche application (e.g., EvolutionAI comes to mind) or get acquired by a
larger vendor because of their technical capabilities (e.g., Kryon, who was recently
acquired by Nintex).
But there is a long list of other start-ups with very interesting capabilities. I suggest
that you do a series of portrays for these vendors, which I am sure will be rather
informative for your audience. [Yes, we are working on a list of these folks to speak to. Is
there anyone in particular YOU, dear reader, would like to see covered? Email me:
]
bdu@info-source.com.
Infosource de□nes Capture beyond the document to include video, voice, and
more. I keep seeing call centers and capture increasingly being mentioned
together. What role does capture/machine learning have to play in call center (or
even more broadly, the customer experience)? 
 Yes indeed, our scope of Capture & IDP includes omni-channel business inputs,
meaning all types of business inputs, coming from all kinds of sources. Contact Centers
play an increasing role here as they process not only voice inputs (i.e., the traditional
call center interactions), but increasingly emails, inputs in chats, social media
messaging, etc. They can function either as a source of additional input channels or a
service provider that has a need for Capture solutions to process customer
transactions. This market segment is often described as Customer Experience
Management (CEM) and with the increasing expectations for superior customer
experience related to any input channel, including communications that involve
multiple channels, this is becoming a much more ubiquitous term.
Beck:
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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Toshiba Continues to Invest in the Cloud
with e-BRIDGE
I wasn’t surprised, but it was interesting to hear a major MFP
manufacturer strike the same themes as the document scanner
folks – ease of use, make life easy for IT and the end user, be part
of the solution. Underlying much of that, like most everything
these days in the IT universe, the cloud.
:
From the release
“Printing to your printer of choice, especially across multiple
locations, presents distinct challenges for individuals and their
organization’s IT departments. Global Print tackles these
challenges by allowing users to print to a single, secure, cloud-
based print queue and then release prints upon end-user
command at any Toshiba e-BRIDGE multifunction printer (MFP) with Global Print
installed.”
It works on the previous two generations of Toshiba devices.
Machine learning or self-learning is becoming increasingly important for handling
changing input forms and process steps. While AI capabilities are usually a black box
which makes end customers feel uncomfortable, classi□cation and self-learning from
SME correction or validation are standard features in Capture solutions. For optimum
impact it is important to apply them to all input channels, including transactional
inputs arriving through a contact center.
Does the ongoing research indicate a continuing combination of the “capture” and
“work□ow” markets?
 Yes, our vision for Information Capture and IDP is the end-to-end automation of a
business process. This of course involves work□ow elements, which can be integrated in
the Capture solution itself, for example in a Procure-to-Pay or Order-to-Cash solution. It
may also be integrated with other BPM and/or RPA solution elements that reduce and
eventually eliminate any manual steps in the respective process.
Beck:
Toshiba recently launched e-BRIDGE Global Print, the latest piece of its cloud platform,
Elevate Sky. We spoke with Kersten Woods, VP of Solutions and Outbound Marketing,
and Manny Sahu, Director of Technical Marketing, about the key elements of this
release, why it’s important to Toshiba, and touched on a few industry trends as well.
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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Woods shared what she think is the most important aspect of the release. “Beyond the
frictionless printing (which is their marketing phrase for the pull printing
functionality),” she said, “I would point out the cloud integrations with Microsoft Of□ce
and Google Workspace. What does that mean? That means that if you are a customer
today and have either of those [which is the majority of the workplaces] then this
solution plugs directly into your existing user base. We emphasize that because that
means you can start this today. I can have you set-up in minutes for print, so
frictionless printing in minutes because it pulls all your existing users.”
She pointed out that’s also helpful for security. Once an employee’s access is removed,
they no longer have access to the devices. While the functionality isn’t new, the cloud
aspects and this “frictionless, nearly seamless” user management experience is. 
Paper, Paper . . . Still Everywhere
$720 MSRP per device for the life of the device with unlimited users. As Woods said, the
goal was to make it easy for an organization to add this software to their mix without
worrying about who would be able to access a particular device.
Woods says that it’s a “relatable product for both end users and IT teams and resonates
with some of the print frustrations that exist today.”
She went on to list those frustrations, “end users having to manage lists of IP addresses
– having all the setup for only a one-to-one relationship to a printer and not really
having the □exibility to pick which printers is best for your immediate needs.”
Throw in hybrid work environments, not to mention travel, and it can be frustrating to
print a document.
For IT, there’s the extra work and overhead of managing on-prem infrastructure –
servers, print drivers, etc.
As Woods notes, “e-BRIDGE global print is really about harnessing the power of the
cloud to make sure that we can deliver print that is simple and secure to help end users
and IT teams be more productive.”
Toshiba continues to invest in the cloud. Last year, the company announced Elevate
Sky, their overall cloud platform. e-BRIDGE is a part of that platform. Woods pointed to
an underlying demand from their customers to be able to use the cloud to manage
their print environments.
Toshiba didn’t try to reinvent the wheel, plugging into Microsoft and Google (for logins,
for example), tools for employee productivity customers are already invested in.
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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Woods continued, “about 80% of respondents felt that they were more productive,
more focused, less distracted, and more ef□cient when they have printed materials.
Now we did ask what types of materials you usually print. There was de□nitely a decline
in certain areas; number one being less printing of PowerPoint presentations.”
She continued by saying there were certain high value uses for printed materials such
as reading and proofreading [as an editor, I can vouch for this one]. Collaborating and
using ideas to in□uence decision makers were also noted as good reasons to use print.
The survey asked open-ended questions about ideal printing situations. Woods said that
there were many responses along the lines of “it’d be great if I could print from home
and pick the document up in the of□ce,” which is an obvious use-case of e-BRIDGE
Global Print.
Not surprising, but color also has high value for conveying critical information. “One of
the healthcare companies that had responded said there is no substitute, black and
white just doesn't cut it if I want fast and ef□cient healthcare workers,” noted Woods.
Toshiba is focused on that intersection point of physical and digital communication.
Making printing seamless for users based on the need for paper is a focal point for the
company.
As printing decreases and focuses more on higher-value documents, I was curious how
this informs how Toshiba designs their devices that are heavily used to print and copy
documents. Woods responded by turning the conversation to services. She explained,
“the value of services is the □rst thing that pops to mind – the goal is □nd ways to
optimize productivity as well as help eliminate waste – which can include printing less.”
Since my stint marketing for copier dealers, I’ve found the tension between the services
Woods mentioned above and the idea that many copier dealers make their money by
charging per click. Few clicks, fewer dollars. Since copiers are also scanners, we
discussed that aspect of MFPs for a moment. Of course, the fact that print volume is
going down isn’t news to Toshiba.
As an analog guy in a digital world, I get the ongoing love affair with paper. BUT paper
usage for business is on the decline. Toshiba commissioned a print study to “get the
pulse of the print user, especially coming out of COVID where there was much more
digital interaction. We wanted to really make sure and understand where does print □t
in their value chain and the results were fantastic,” said Woods, “The results indicate an
ongoing use case for printing in a digital world. A product like e-BRIDGE can be used to
simplify printing as well as eliminate unnecessary printing (like printing a document,
editing it, then printing it again – pull printing allows you to just print the edited
document – which cuts costs).”
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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Woods explained Toshiba’s response as follows, “Print devices need to do more than just
print. So the cloud trend has ramped up with COVID, but software had already been
moving in that direction, right. Customers don't want to invest too much on the print
side of the business. They don’t want to have to put IT staff onto print.” By making it
easier to print, while overall volumes will continue to trend down, Woods said there
might be more printing if it’s easier to do – making the decline a little less steep.
Security
As the move to the cloud continues, the Elevate Sky portfolio allows Toshiba to provide
more services than selling hardware. One advantage, Woods points out, is that Toshiba
can collect data about the overall performance of their devices. The data can be used
for preventive maintenance – the usual “change the rollers” sort of recommendation.
The advantage for both users and resellers is that they don’t have to worry about
collecting the data but will know what’s going on with the □eet [I’ve always half-
thought “Copier Admiral” would be a great title, but I digress].
As print volumes decline, Toshiba is working to have more applications on the print
devices – taking more advantage of their scanning capabilities, for example, to continue
to provide ROI to the customer beyond print. Another capability is being able to collect
meter information from 3 -party devices without having to install something on the
PC or server to collect that data.
rd
Regarding the continued role of MFPs in the of□ce – especially as the trend to a hybrid
work environment continues; Woods is bullish. While acknowledging that single-
function scanners from companies like Kodak Alaris, Epson, Brother, etc. are well-suited
for their role (and noting that Toshiba has partnerships among scanner manufacturers),
she says there will be an ongoing need for devices that can do more. But, looping back
around to the point I made in the beginning about Toshiba talking about solutions, she
points out that “it depends.” Basically, sometimes you’ll just need a scanner and a small
printer. Sometimes, you’ll need an MFP.
The more □exibility Toshiba can add to their devices, the more likely they’ll continue to
be included in the mix.
Pull printing is an essential element in helping to prevent “breaches” with paper
documents. I’m continually □ummoxed by cybersecurity – criminals are actively
attempting to steal user data. IT companies (Toshiba included) are doing all they can to
include security features in their products. However, it feels like the business world
collectively just shrugs it’s shoulders with a “ain’t gonna get me” mentality.
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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He also noted that it depends on who the
“me” shrugging shoulders is. IT
administrators responsible for security don’t have that luxury. When they run network
security analysis, they have to pay attention to every possible vulnerability – hardware
included. The more Toshiba helps close off a vulnerability via a tight link with Of□ce or
Google to close off device access after those permissions are revoked as well as all of
the nuts and bolts of keeping the device secure, the more likely Toshiba devices will be
purchased. So while not everyone with a purchasing role in IT pays close attention to
security, Sahu’s point is that the more Toshiba pays attention to security; the better
chance they have of being chosen.
As Sahu noted, they take it seriously, “We
do device-level security, access-level
security, document-level security, □eet-
level security, and then services and
education around that to make sure that
down to the hard drive level, there's no
risk down to the □rmware. It is robustly
built with defense in depth because you
don't want to have any sort of security
risk, whether it's perceived or not.”
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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He is Infosource’s Japan
Representative/Regional Manager,
Asia Paci□c. Prior to Infosource,
Oda-san has had a varied career –
managing an AI product
development team, working to
establish a system development
methodology at Sony Global
Solutions, and served as General
Manager/Software Product Dept.
Head at Primagest Inc.
You can connect with him on
 or 
.
LinkedIn here
so@info-
source.com
What do you do and what do
you love about it?
I am a Japan Representative for
Infosource covering the Asia
Paci□c region, I have been doing
this job since mid-March 2021. I
am mainly responsible for
document scanners and am
currently expanding my research
into areas such as Capture
Software, MFPs and LFPs.
Meet Infosource: Shinichiro Oda
I feel the estimation work for shipment units is similar to develop the logic used in
machine learning, arti□cial intelligence, and demand estimation, and is interesting in
that it is similar to the repetitive process of making and testing hypotheses. 
Describe yourself using 3 words only
Thoughtful, Optimistic, (sometimes) Silly
I was the kind of kid who disassembled and reassembled home radios, TVs, clocks, and
motorcycles. And I built my own radios, audio system ampli□ers, record players, and
speakers.
What are you proudest of, personally and/or professionally?
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 13
Therefore, once I bought an electrical appliance, I
have been using them for decades by doing the
maintenance myself. (My wife has a few
complaints about the old products).
So, since I started working, my skill of like above
was useful in the development of production
equipment (imaging systems) and automation
systems for a large-scale printing plant, the
system deployment and the development of
methodologies for system development and
maintenance at the IT/business transformation division of SONY, software development
at high-end scanner manufacturer and technical research in the AI division of a venture
company.
I have been working exclusively in technical □elds for 38 years, and I think I am proud of
the fact that I have experienced such a wide range of variations. 
What movie, no matter
how many times you've
seen it, do you have to
watch when it's on?
Back to the Future or Indy
Jones
Summer or Winter?
Summer!
Favorite Color?
Emerald green!
To travel and visit unfamiliar cities and see magni□cent nature. I also like taking
pictures and building my own audio system with electronics.
What do you do for fun?
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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Another aspect is that I have been
playing guitar since junior high school. 
One day I asked Mother to buy me a
classical guitar or an acoustic guitar
because I wanted to learn playing guitar,
but she decided to buy me an electric
guitar because she said, "This one sounds
better”. She also bought me the best
album of The Beatles (Let It Be). This was
the beginning of my musical life.
Last book read and book on your
nightstand now?
I forget the author, but it's the latest cosmology book.
Top 3 albums
The Wall / Pink Floyd: This is an album I've been listening to for over 40 years, and I
don't think it will ever be surpassed again.
BOSTON / BOSTON: I still
remember the shock I felt
when I □rst heard it on FM
radio. I was a rock guitar boy
at the time, but I had no idea
how to create such a sound,
which led me to start
researching effect pedals and
recording methods later. It's
still one of the best pieces of
music I've ever heard.
Late for the Sky / Jackson
Brown: I was very torn about
what I wanted for the third
album, but I had to mention
an album by the esteemed Jackson Browne. (There are about 10 more in the same row
on the list.)
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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3 Sneak Peeks: Here’s a Glimpse Into What
You’ll Learn at Capture Conference 2022
All conferences are the same. There’s a venue. Speakers. Attendees. The speakers talk.
The attendees listen. There’s some networking. A beverage or three is probably involved
somewhere along the line.
In form, our conference is no different – we have some great presentations lined up,
two enjoyable evenings planned, and the networking opportunities are plentiful.
We do have a key difference – a concentration of leaders in the capture industry in a
friendly, collegial atmosphere. It’s both knowledge-intensive and relaxed. You’ll make
connections that will help both you personally as well as your organization.
In previous issues, I’ve shared “sneak peek” interviews with Infosource analyst Ralph
Gammon and Kevin Neal, representing one of our sponsors, The TWAIN Working Group.
Given this newsletter’s schedule, I’m sharing three more in this issue since there’s only
one more issue before the event (and we’ll have additional interviews in that issue):
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 16
The Evolving Landscape of Mortgage Loan Processing: Expanding
from capture to data-driven workflows is vital for success
DON'T DELAY. REGISTER NOW. Click anywhere on this line!
Mark Swift: https://youtu.be/KhV4tMu66Ds
Tim Anderson: https://youtu.be/KDu0_S4z1wQ
Greg Froning https://youtu.be/r74fbYSDDA0
For those who preview to read rather than watch, the transcribed interviews, lightly
edited, follow. Here are the questions I asked each of them.
Meet 
 who is Software Product Manager with 
. Mark is a
featured guest speaker at the Infosource Capture 2022 Conference.
Mark has been in the Imaging, Document Management, and Business Process
Automation space for more than 25 years. Throughout his career, Mark, has had a focus
of integrating Best-of-Breed imaging and capture solutions to ERP-sized business
applications like PeopleSoft, J.D. Edwards, Oracle, and most recently the Mortgage
Cadence Platform (MCP).
Mark Swift
Mortgage Cadence
I was struck by the use of “document management solutions” in your bio. This
industry, which revolves around documents, has historically shied away from
“document management.” Why does Mortgage Cadence have “DM” speci□cally in
your responsibilities?
The “data-driven work□ows” segment of your title is so crucial. Can you share an
example of what you mean by that?
How “intelligent” is AI and how does it work within you platform?
Last question, give us a preemptive takeaway from what you’ll be sharing at the
Capture Conference.
You can also click on the images below to watch/listen to the interviews.
And, of course, we'll see you in Chicago (well, south of Chicago at a resort) on
September 7 and 8, right? 
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
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Tim Anderson of Epson Talks Industry Trends
Greg brings 20+ years of experience in designing, building, and implementing
document capture solutions and automating the business processes around those
documents and the content management systems they need to be stored in. Greg has
worked to automate digital capture for a number of healthcare insurance providers as
well as □nancial and life insurance industries.
You have decades of experience designing capture solutions for insurance, what’s
the most important □rst step to get it right?
What is the most common mistake you see made that leads to a subpar capture
implementation?
We see a LOT of companies claiming 100% accuracy on unstructured documents.
Out in the real world, what are you seeing when it comes to the dif□culty of using
recognition tools (including AI) to ingest a gigantic variety of documents?
Last question, your session description says you’ll be sharing your vision for “the
ultimate capture solution.” Without giving away the store, can you share a
glimpse into what that is?
Tim Anderson is Group Product Manager for Epson America. Epson is a sponsor of the
conference.
The capture industry is, to put it mildly, experiencing a lot of change. From your
perspective as a hardware company, what’s the most important change
happening now (technology, general trend, or both)? 
Scanner manufacturers have moved from speeds and feeds to focusing on being
a part of an overall information management solution. What was the reasoning
behind the Digitech/Epson bundle? My guess is a way to get your foot in the door
of folks who don’t realize they need to get rid of paper!
In your mind, what is Epson’s greatest competitive advantage in a □eld of devices
that can all look the same? 
What’s the latest from Epson and what will you be sharing with Conference
attendees? 
Final question, ever met Shaquille O’Neal?
Greg Froning – Modernizing Capture in the Health Insurance Market
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 18
We have with us Mark Swift who is software product manager with mortgage Cadence.
He is a featured speaker at the Infosource Capture 2022Conference. This is yet another
in our series of sneak peeks of the conference to give you a little bit of a glimpse of
what you'll be getting if you do decide to attend and for those of you who don't decide
to attend – for whatever horri□cr eason you have – this will be valuable in and of itself.
Mark has been in the imaging, document management, and business process
automation space for more than 25 years. Throughout his career, Mark has had a focus
on integrating best of breed imaging and capture solutions to ERP sized business
applications like PeopleSoft, JD Edwards, Oracle, and, most recently, the Mortgage
Cadence Platform. Mark, thank you for joining us today
The Evolving Landscape of Mortgage Loan
Processing: Expanding from capture to
data-driven workflows is vital for success
Let's launch into the □rst of our short list of questions. As I was reading through your
session description I was struck by the use of document management solutions in your
bio. This industry which revolves around documents is historically sort of shied away
from that term “document management,” so why does Morgan Cadence have DM
speci□cally in your list of responsibilities?
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 19
 Well, it's interesting that you grabbed onto that terminology. I have been around
the industry for a long time and document management was a big buzzword years ago
with various platforms and so on. I think it's a good term to use and my company has
used it when we talk about all the functions for merging, splitting, viewing, annotating,
versioning. It’s a great overarching terminology for that. It's not imaging. It's not
capturing documents. It's not the work□ow of documents.
Swift:
It's what we do with documents once we have them in our document repository so it's
maybe it's an old term but i've used it quite a bit for overarching technology
functionality document management that's what our that's what our end users are
doing with the documents they're managing them they're stacking them in the
mortgage industry that's a very big thing and so document management is the term
that that we use.
 OK, as you as you were speaking a question came to me and it's kind of a kind of a
little bit of a soap box I’ve been on and off for a little bit and we were talking just before
we started recording, we've both been involved with AIIM, and you've been involved in
the industry obviously for quite a while. Do you do you think the constant □ipping of
terms away from something simple like document management or capture to know
where intelligent document processing and intelligent automation or pick whatever
phrase you want to use do you think that's helped or hurt adoption of this technology
in in the market at large?
DIR:
 Oh boy, that that's quite a question because i think i started when we called it
IDOM, imaging document output management, years ago. I understand the changing
terminology and the need for it to keep it fresh and exciting. I mean, this technology
has been around for a really long time and still. I don’t know the percentage of
adoption, but we need to keep it fresh. We need to keep it out there. We need to keep it
in front of people.
Swift:
I just recently wrote an article for our end users about how to scan a document
properly. I mean 300 dpi, clean your scanner every once in a while, – I had to do things
like that in order to remind people.
So, back on your terminology question and the nomenclature, I think we need to keep it
fresh and in front of people and keep it moving forward. I've adopted the various names
along the line along the way as they've as come out. But still, in all, I think things like
document management still have a good play and a good usage out there.
 Mortgage Cadence is what we call loan origination system, LOS. We could call it
a line of business application. But when we □rst built the product, we built it □rst with a
work□ow engine in it and then we built everything on top of it. So when imaging was
introduced some years ago we wanted the imaging and the receipt of documents and
the receipt of data to drive the work□ow and the movement of the loan through the
origination process.
Swift:
 Thank you. Now we'll get back on that we'll get back to our regular-scheduled
program now that I threw a curveball at you. The data-driven work□ow segment of your
title is so crucial. Can you share an example of what you mean by that?
DIR:
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 20
An example is that a processor can't start or should not necessarily start looking at a
loan or an underwriter start booking it alone until key documents are already in the
loan and statused as OK and reviewed by certain people. So we have a work□ow event
that is raised “executed” when documents are received and we can check off and say
“Hey, these critical documents have arrived now i can move the loan to the next stage.”
We do the same thing with data. When we're looking at a re□nance or a purchase of a
large home, there's different criteria that's involved in those mortgages. We can build
rules around that to drive the work□ow when data and documents are received. It's
super important in our industry because as we'll talk about a little bit later ef□ciency of
the back-of□ce is now the thing again.
It was the borrower experience now it's back-to-back-of□ce ef□ciency and that really
comes play hand-in-hand with work□ow.
 Well, as a borrower, I like that.
DIR:
 [Laughter] Right?
Swift:
 Changing gears a little bit; how intelligent is arti□cial intelligence and how does it
work within your platform?
DIR:
 Right now we have two primary pieces of arti□cial intelligence. That's the
machine learning for our model building that we use to recognize and classify
documents. Then there's the auto learning that is done when an exception is handled by
the user, and we learn – the system learns – from those interactions.
Swift:
So those are a couple of the places. Now, how smart is it? We still need to provide even
to the most sophisticated software platforms many samples to build accurate models.
The reason is a lot of a lot of vendors out there will proclaim, "Oh, I only need □ve
samples of a document to recognize that document.” That is absolutely true when
you're in a bubble and you're just recognizing that one particular document. But our
solution recognizes between 350 and 450 document types in the mortgage transaction.
We do need to provide more samples so that the recognition can be more accurate to
separate those individual document types.
I consider it pretty smart, but it's still burdensome when we're creating a new model to
gather all those samples and make sure they're ready to be fedi nto the engine for the
machine learning and then the auto learning, you have to be a little bit careful there,
because you can teach the system something incorrect as easily as you can teach it the
correct approach for classifying documents. We still temper that automatic online
learning with a little bit of review to make sure that we're not seeing one particular user
skew the learning pattern.
So how smart is it? It’s smart but we still have the places where we inject ourselves into
the process for the highest level of accuracy that we can achieve.
 So we've not hit iRobot stage yet?
DIR:
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 21
 I don't think so but some of the articles that are coming out about sentient AI
speech recognition models is a little bit scary.
Swift:
 Yes, I was just reading a little bit about speech recognition and some of the ability
to analyze sentiment based on word placement and it’s pretty amazing.
DIR:
So just rolling into the last question, just give us a preemptive takeaway from what
you'll be sharing at the capture conference. Sort of, please just tease us a little bit.
 I was going to talk about our solution and the number of document types and
the complexity and so on. I was going to talk about the document and data driven
work□ow and I was also going to mention solving customer business problems and
knowing what the business problems are for that data extraction and that automation
is still very.
Swift:
I’m a very big proponent of pure product management where you interview your end
users what are their problems what business problems should we be prioritizing –
customer service and so on. I’m really big on that. And then i was going to just talk a
little bit about what our next steps are with AI. There’s been many advances, and again I
mentioned model building, online learning, lots of different things that are in our
industry. Who knows what is to come.
Modernizing Capture in the Health
Insurance Market
Accenture, our parent company, is very big into the Metaverse, right. So if we start
looking at augmented reality, virtual reality tools and Oculus and some of the things
like that. How can that be built into business applications to help us with some of these
manual steps along the line? Exception processing or model building or whatever, I’m
very positive about where things could go with new technology.
 That's kind of interesting. I don’t know why I □ashed back to the Jetsons. Maybe we
don't have our □ying car yet but maybe we'll get some version of Rosie the Robot
right?
DIR:
 Or something where you're wearing something and you're nodding your head
and you're agreeing or whatever. I'm not really sure where it's going to go but to think
that it's going to stay static or stagnant, I think would not be the right approach.
Swift:
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 22
 I think the most overlooked □rst step is getting the requirements together –
fully understanding the business process and what is what are they trying to – they
being the business -- to solve, enhance, modernize, whatever it is. Probably the even
more important step is getting a lot of sample documents; all the different varieties
that you can possibly see.
Froning:
And I mean lots of samples. Everybody starts with maybe a day's worth. If I can get a
week, a month, two months whatever i can get, that's good to start with. Another key is
to get somebody from the business that will be dedicated to this project and to work
with you day in and day out.
Think kind of an agile approach. You don't just meet in the beginning and
then go away and build some magic solution and come back and say “ta-da.” It never
works that way.
 Oh, you're sure? It capture with magic and it's easy. It's just taking a piece of paper
and turning it digital! OK, sort of the □ip side of that question is what is the most
common mistake you see made that leads to a subpar capture implementation.
Obviously not doing those things that you just said would be answers, but i'm sure
there's other common □ubs that you've that you've seen over your career.
DIR:
 We have with us today, Greg Froning, he will be speaking to modernizing capture
in the health insurance market. Greg has extensive experience in the healthcare
industry. He is currently Solutions Architect in commercial health insurance with CVS
Health.
DIR:
I've mentioned in the quick intro you have decades of experience designing capture
solutions for insurance. What's the most important □rst step to get it right?
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 23
 Not allocating enough resources or money when it comes down to hiring
somebody. Time or money to build the requirements. Nobody wants to read the
requirements document thinking that's what they're paying for. They want to want you
to build something and code it, whatever, implement it.
Froning:
Probably the one of the biggest things is unrealistic expectations. To say “we can solve
your problem and 99% accuracy and whatever large percentage of manual interaction
and reduction and that's given before you really know what the business wants.
Because a lot of times, they don't even know what they want. They're asking for
something magic to happen and you need to spend that time up front to educate both
sides. For business, what can be done but also on the developer side to see what the
business really wants.
You can’t sprinkle a little bit of capture fairy dust just. It isn't going to get the job done
right.
 It’s interesting that you said unrealistic expectations, which is a perfect lead in for
the next question. We see a lot of companies claiming 100 accuracy on unstructured
documents. Right now out in the real world what are you seeing when it comes to the
dif□culty of using recognition tools including these AI tools, to ingest a gigantic variety
of documents?
DIR:
 Well the □rst thing whenever i see a hundred percent accuracy; I start asking
questions. That’s very dif□cult to get 100 percent of anything humans are involved in.
Things are going to go sideways probably. You're never going to be able to develop a
solution that handles everything that a company gets in or a business area. It’s just
impossible.
Froning:
Even in the old days it used to be kind of 80% and handwritten like 50% Accuracy. That’s
really progressed in the last few years. Even without AI, there's been tremendous
increases in the level of accuracy. Another word of caution is get that de□nition of
accuracy. What does the business think? What is their de□nition of accuracy versus
what you're trying to deliver?
Accuracy – 100 percent – means every single letter on every single document was
successfully analyzed and interpreted in the correct manner. That's a pretty tall order.
That’s probably something good up front to determine, What is a de□nition of success?
 That’s a fantastic point. As we round the corner to question four, your session
description says you'll be sharing your vision for the ultimate capture solution. Without
giving away the store to try to get people to register for Capture Conference 2022, can
you share a glimpse?
DIR:
 Well a vision doesn't mean it's currently happening [laughter], but it's
something we strive for. One of the biggest challenges that i've seen is the speed to
delivery. We start working on a project – I mean in the old days we used to allocate six
to eight months or even a year to take in claims or whatever document type you're
looking at, install the software, build all the environments, do the development,
analysis, and testing.
Froning:
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 24
With how many dollar signs that involves in time and budget. That’s just not realistic
and it’s hard to □nd upper management that's willing to write that check on a promise
for a future. It’s being able to do that within weeks – and I’m talking six weeks, eight
weeks something like that.
That’s a very short duration of starting a project and implementing it. Secondly with
the advancement of cloud . . .
 I’m going to ask you a quick question, it's almost like thinking of capture as a
sprint as opposed to sort of that … almost an agile mentality.
DIR:
 Absolutely. More and more of the teams that I’ve worked with have taken that
approach and because of the fast pace and things come up and it changes so fast that
these documents you had a year ago, they become irrelevant, so you need to be fast
and agile.
Froning:
Cloud technology also helps this tremendously. Every company that I’ve heard of is
embracing the move to cloud in some way, shape, or form. It really lends the ability to
be transformative, either increasing or decreasing scalability. That used to be fairly easy
to scale up but not easy to scale down. You have a form – say a yearly enrollment – and
you’re only using the full capacity for a month to six weeks, and it varies from year to
year. Now you can just budget that in and use it for six weeks and then give it back.
That’s oversimplifying the whole process, but that ability is there. Also with the cloud
mentality that no one capture software has the best tools for every problem. They all
excel at some type of document, some are better at handwritten or unstructured
documents versus structured, things like that, and what I'm seeing is the publication of
those types of OCR engines or AI availability to be used as a service. You have your
capture system and software built already but you can incorporate a call to the cloud to
use this AI engine or even for speci□c documents and buy what you need pay for what
you use.
Just those few things have been game changers versus 10 or 15 years ago where that
wasn't an option.
 It’s kind of amazing that you can capture a document on your phone and put it
into a work□ow. Just 20/25 years ago, I think anybody would have said you're a little bit
crazy if you suggested about what the possibilities are today.
DIR:
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 25
Epson is one of Capture Conference 2022 sponsors – Thank you! We spoke with Tim
Anderson who is Group Product Manager for Epson America.
 The capture industry obviously is, to put it mildly, experiencing a lot of change.
From your perspective as a hardware company, what's the most important change
happening now – technology, general trend, or both?
DIR:
 You're absolutely right. There is a lot of change. If you think about our
industry, there's a certain maturity to image capture that gives us some stability, but,
yes, there are a lot of changes and a lot of things going on in the market right now.
Anderson:
From my standpoint – from the Epson standpoint – we see trends like, obviously, a lot
of software companies, a lot of our partners, are looking at cloud scanning and cloud
scanning applications. We see a lot of our customers removing the PC from the
equation and going to PC-free scanners to kind of pull that part of the equation out.
We’re seeing a lot of continued investment in scan hardware and software solutions. So
it’s a pretty exciting time to be part of the industry.
 That is true. I think we'll both be good until the end of our careers.
DIR:
 Right.
Anderson:
Capture Industry Trends (and Shaquille
O’Neal: A Conversation with Epsons’s Tim
Anderson
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 26
 One of the things that I’ve noticed over the last number of years, and it's really
ramped up now and i think you alluded to it, the scanner manufacturers sort of moved
away from speeds and feeds and they're now focusing on sort of being a part of an
overall information management solution. I noticed a couple of weeks ago you've got a
relationship with Digitech. They’re offering a free Epson scanner as part of a Digitech
subscription. What inspired that/was the rationale behind that idea?
DIR:
Our ISV partners are hugely important to us. it kind of goes back to the old
business school adage the idea that you're not selling a drill bit; your customers are
really buying a hole.
Anderson: 
Our customers aren't looking for just hardware. They're looking for a scanning solution.
And so part of that ecosystem obviously is the on-ramp – the hardware. But the other
part of the equation is the software – the Digitech’s of the world, and the many other
software ISVs that we work with. We work with integrating with these partners. We also
work with co-marketing activities. We see a lot of that going on. Right now we're
investing in that area and, again, it kind of goes back to this idea that the end customer
isn't looking just for a piece of hardware; they are looking for a total solution. We want
to be the best partner out there with these software providers for providing that
solution long term to the customer.
 It’s funny. I guess within the industry we’ve always thought about it that way, but
it's increasingly fascinating to see the marketing shift to presenting it to customers
that way. So in your mind, what is Epson’s greatest competitive advantage in a □eld of
devices that to an outside eye can all look the same?
DIR:
 That is a great question.
Anderson:
A lot of the speeds and feeds are very similar across the different hardware solutions
out there. I think where Epson differentiates itself is a couple areas.
First, we're a great partner both with our channel partners and our software partners.
We love our partners, and we work with them very directly to provide those solutions
to the customers. But to the end customer, really what they're getting, is a lifetime of
service and support from Epson that (I would argue) goes above and beyond the
normal competition
We've seen a lot of maturity . . . we've seen evolution in this marketplace when it comes
to service and support from all the way up for the production-level scanners that
require somebody on site to advanced exchange – if a desktop or a work group scanner
fails somebody needs that back up and running very
Quickly. Down in that mainstream area I think Epson has done a really good job of
providing service and support solutions for customers to make sure that they're up and
running as quickly as possible
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 27
We've focused on kind of that that mainstream area. We haven't invested as much on
the on-site support like some of our competitors but given the evolution of the market
we think that we made the right investments. And given where scanners are going
from a price standpoint and from a feature/function standpoint I think that our services
support model kind of differentiates us from the from the competition.
 OK, looping back around to the to the origins of this conversation. What's the
latest from Epson and what will you be sharing with attendees at the Capture
Conference?
DIR:
 We've got a lot of a lot of exciting things going on. Our newest product that
we introduced earlier this year, the ds 790 wn. We'll try to bring one of those – they’re in
short supply right now. They're selling out very quickly.
Anderson:
But the DS-790WN we'll show that to participants at the show. It is a wireless and
ethernet-enabled PC-free. We call it ScanWay PC-free. Obviously, it works with [our]
document capture pro software and a PC. But if the customer wants to remove the PC
from the equation and not have the scanner tethered to a hardware device the scanner
is perfectly capable of scanning to network folders to email to other integrations it's a
very powerful standalone scanner that we're very excited about. We introduced it earlier
this year back in February and very proud of it and we'll bring one to the conference so
people can see the nice big touch screen and kind of the usability that makes it really
easy to remove the PC from the equation.
 A little show-and-tell and that's obviously a huge trend the whole trend to network
scanning.
DIR:
 Absolutely, we're removing the PC from the process.
Anderson:
 And the □nal question i had for you this is because it was on TV as I was putting
these questions together. Have you met Shaquille O’Neal?
DIR:
DOCUMENT IMAGING REPORT
Business Trends on Converting Paper Processes to Electronic Format
DIR is the leading executive report on managing documents for e-
business. Areas we cover include: Document Capture; OCR/ICR, AI,
and Machine Learning; RPA; ECM; Records Management;
Document Output, and BPM.
DIR brings you the inside story behind the deals and decisions that affect your
business. 
 I have not met Shaquille O’Neal -- yet.  Epson America has worked with him
– for a couple years now. He's a great ambassador for our brand. We love the guy.
Obviously, he towers over everyone at 7’4” [note: he’s “only” 7’1”]. .
Anderson:
Document Imaging Report August 1, 2022
Page 28
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