E HIBIT 2 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 1 of 124 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF ARKANSAS WESTERN DIVISION TERRY HOBBS, Plaintiff, v. NATALIE PASDAR, et a!., Defendants. § § § § § § § CV NO.: 4~09~CV-0008BSM DECLARATION OF NATALIE PASDAR I, Natalie Pasdar, declare as follows: 1. "My name is Natalie Pasdar. I am over the age of21 and competent to give this declaration. 2. All of the information set forth herein is within my personal knowledge and is in all things true and correct. 3. I first became aware of the West Memphis 3 (the "WM3"), the Robin Hood Hills Murders ("Murders") and Terry Hobbs ("Hobbs") in approximately May 2007, when I watched the two Paradise Lost documentaries. The Paradise Lost films contain actual footage of the trials, interviews with the WM3and interviews with parents ofthe victims. 4. It appeared to me that since 1994 there has been a very public controversy regarding whether the WM3 were wrongfully convicted. Specifically, movies, press reports, blogs and private citizens have spoken out on the issues. Many believed (and believe) there is insufficient evidence linking the WM3 to the Murders. Some believe the WM3 are guilty. This controversy, whatever side is argued, is very much a public concern. It involves American citizens' rights to fair trials, police and prosecutors' obligations to uphold the law, and the ''justness'' ofour court systems. 5. After watching the Paradise Lost films, I donated money to the Damien Echols Trust Account to assist with his legal fees. 6. Lorri Davis ("Davis"), the wife of Damien Echols and a leader among the WM3 activists, subsequently reached out and contacted me to thank me for my donation. This began a correspondence and telephone communication relationship regarding the WM3 case. Davis has acquired extensive knowledge about the Murders, the trials of the WM3, the publicity about the WM3 and the P.-\GEI 85148862.2110900361 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 2 of 124 efforts of the WM3 to obtain post-conviction relief. I discussed with Davis the trials, the post-conviction relief efforts and the evidence. 7. From that time to present, Davis and I have communicated through email and phone calls, with Davis educating me about the investigation of the Murders, the evidence, the information being publicized in the press and the WM3 attempts to be released. 8. Davis was my primary source of information regarding the WM3, and I relied upon her wealth of knowledge aboutthe WM3 to keep me informed about the ongoing proceedings. Also, I believe at different times I saw various news reports about the WM3 case on television, in neWspapers, and/or on the internet. In early November 2007, Davis sent me a link from the www.wm3.org website to a video ofa press conference held by the Echols defense team ("Press Conference"). I watched the Press Conference, and the defense team spoke specifically about new evidence in Echols' case, including the evidence which potentially implicates Hobbs. The attorneys also discussed evidence related to a knife found behind Jason Baldwin's house, which the prosecution alleged was used in the Murders, and the experts discussed their opinion that the victims had no knife wounds but rather the alleged knife wounds were caused by animals. The attorneys and experts also explained that a foreign allele was found on the penis of Steven Branch, which could not be linked to any victim or defendant. 9. On or about November 7, 2007, I also watched an Anderson Cooper 360 show on CNN, which profiled the WM3 case and discussed the same new evidence in the case that the Echols attorneys had discussed in the Press Conference. The show also interviewed Terry Hobbs about the new evidence, which potentially implicated him. 10. On November 12, 2007, I. emailed. Lorri Davis about the Anderson Cooper 360 show and told DaVis that I was thinking ofideas for raising money for the Echols defense team. 11. Soon thereafter, I began trying, with the help of my managers at Strategic Artist Management ("SAM"), to organize a screening of the Paradise Lost films in Los Angeles to raise awareness of and money for the WM3. 12. On November 16, 2007, I informed Davis that I was taking further action by "putting a letter together ... with a link to find out more information and donate." At that time, I again donated to the defense fund. I subsequently began writing a letter in support of the WM3 to encourage donations to Damien Echols' defense fund. This letter would become both the Website Letter and the MySpace Letter (the "Letters"). 13. On November 17, 2007, Davis emailed me a document titled "Summary of New Evidence in Damien Echols (and the "West Memphis 3") Case" ("Summary"). I could see that this Summary contained the same information Lorri Davis and I PAGE 2 85148862.2110900361 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 3 of 124 had discussed and which had been publicly reported by the Echols attorneys in the Press Conference, by CNN on Anderson Cooper 360 and in other news reports. Specifically, the Summary contained the same evidentiary points regarding the DNA, the knife, the foreign allele, etc, which Lotti and I discussed and which was reported on by the Echols' defense· team in the Press Conference. A true and correct copy of this Summary. is attached to the First Appendix of Summary Judgment Evidence to Pasdar's Motion for Summary Judgment as Exhibit 34 ("Davis Summary Email"). Davis offered the Summary to me as a list of possible "talking points" for the fundraising letter I was putting together. I have since learned that the Summary (Exhibit 34) is also the Press Release released by the Echols defense team around the same time ("Press Release"), Exhibit 12 to the First Appendix of Summary Judgment Evidence to Pasdar's Motion for Summary Judgment 14. I understood and believed the Summary (Exhibit 34) had been prepared and approved by EchOlS' attorneys and was a truthful and accurate reflection of the new evidence the defense team was prepared to present to the federal court. 15. I relied heavily on the Summary (Exhibit 34), in addition to my ,conversations with Lorri Davis, the Press Conference, and the Anderson Cooper 360 show, in drafting the Letters to seek donations, particularly in the postscript, which is nearly identical to the language regarding forensic evidence in the Press Release (Exhibit 12) and the Summary (Exhibit 34). 16. On November 20,2007, I forwarded a draft of the letter to my management team for review and posting on the Dixie Chicks website and the Dixie Chicks MySpace blog. I am the custodian of records fotthe work that I do from my at home office as a musician and in my activist projects. Attached to Pasdar's Appendix of Summary Judgment Evidence at Exhibit 35 ("Pasdar Editing Emails") (PASDAR 022-028), Exhibit 3 ("Website Letter"), and Exhibit 4 ("My Space Letter") are true and correct copies of eleven (11) pages of memorandum, reports, records, or data compilations,· of acts, events, conditions or opinions, made at or near the time of those acts, events, conditions or opinions, by, or from infonnation transmitted by, a person with knowledge of those acts, events conditions or opinions. These records have been kept in the course of my regularly conducted business activities, and it is the regular practice of my at home work as a musician and my activist projects to make the memorandum, report, record or data compilation. 17. As can·be seen in Exhibit 35, the Pasdar Editing Emails, on November 20, 2007, I also emailedDavisadraftoftheletterandaskedforfeedback.aslwanted to make sure the letter was factually correct. Davis enthusiastically approved the letter. 18. As can also be seen in Exhibit 35, on November 21, 2007, Simon Renshaw ("Renshaw"), my manager, emailed me suggested changes to the letter. PAGE 3 &514&862.211 0900361 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 4 of 124 19. Exbibit 35, however, also shows that on November 22, 2007, 1 responded to Renshaw and rejected his suggestions: "Overall, I don't mind grammar corrections or wording that states things more clearly, but all ofthe legal stuff is copied directly from the court filing and legal papers that were written by the defense team. I don't want to put any of that in my own words. The DNA evidence is not 'what I think\but what has been proven in the testing and id (sic) just being presented in the federal court hearing." 20. Finally, as can be seen in Exhibit 35, a few minutes later, on November 22, 2007, to ensure no substantive changes were made to the Website Letter, I also sent a similar email to Morgan Zeuhlke, an employee at SAM responsible for posting of the Website Letter on the website: "Morgan, Please know that other than grammatical corrections, I don't want any of Simon's changes to be made to the letter. He doesn't realize that I took all of the legal talk directly from the documents written by the defense team. I am talking to him in the AM to go over all of it, but Ijust wanted to save you some work if! could." 21. No substantive changes were made to the Letters prior to posting on the Dixie Chicks website or MySpace blog. 22. The letter was posted on the Dixiechicks.com website ("Website Letter"). I believed then, as I believe now, the Website Letter is factually accurate and true. 23. The letter was also posted on the Dixie Chicks MySpace blog ("the "MySpace Letter") (Exhibit 4). I believed then, as I believe now, that the MySpace Letter is factually accurate and correct. 24. The MySpace Letter, Exhibit 4, is identical to the Website Letter, Exhibit 3, except that when linking to sample letters for a letter writing campaign, the Website Letter (Exhibit 3) says, "Click here to download the sample letter" whereas the MySpace Letter (Exhibit 4) says, "By clicking on this link, you can download the sample letter." 25. In the Letters, I do not accuse Hobbs of committing the Murders. In fact, the Letters do just the opposite: they argue my opinion that the WM3 are not the murderers and that the "kilIer(s) is still out there, and justice has yet to be served." 26. I state my purpose in making these communications in the first sentence of the J.,etters: "I'm writing this letter because I believe that three men have spent the last 13 years in prison for crimes they didn't commit and it is my hope that they are released from prison or granted a new trial." I encourage the readers to view the evidence and documentaries for themselves. I note that the "real kiIIer(s)" are still out there. I do not claim to know the identity or number of people actually responsible for the Murders. . PAGE 4 85148862.2110900361 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 5 of 124 27. The body of the Letters - from the date at the top, down to my name near the bottom of the first page - details and supports the ongoing post~conviction legal struggle of the WM3 and specifically requests donations to help the WM3 pay legal costs. I do not mention Hobbs in the body of the Letters. In fact, in the body of the Letters, I do not refer to Hobbs in any way, directly or indirectly. Instead, I encourage the readers to see the documentaries, look at the WM3.org website, donate money and look at the evidence for themselves. While I encourage the reader to review the forensic evidence available, I do not detail or characterize the evidence or link the evidence to Hobbs. I am giving my opinion that the WM3 are not guilty, that justice has not been served, and that the "killer(s)" are still out there. 28. Even a brief review of the body of the Letters reveals that my theme, far from "Terry Hobbs is the murderer" is "Please give money to help the WM3, because / they did not commit the Murders." Simply put, I do not claim to know who or how many people committed the Murders. 29. The post-script of the Letters (Exhibits 3, 4), the portion from "The following is just some of the DNA and forensic evidence ... " through the end of the Letters, is identical in both the Website Letter and the MySpace Letter. 30. This postscript language, however, did not comefrom me. Instead, the postscript contains the bullet points found in the Summary I received from Lorri Davis (Exhibit 34 (which is the same document as the Press Release (Exhibit 12» and which had been widely reported by the media and the defense team long before my Letters were drafted. To the extent any changes made to the Letters, it was to make the language more "layperson friendly" for someone unfamiliar with the case. In fact, of the eight bullet points in the postscript, four bullet points "cut and paste" identical language from the Summary of Evidence (Exhibit 34) and the remainder of the bullet points have been miriimally altered. I did, however, know from my conversations with Lorri Davis as well as my review of the Press Conference, the Anderson Cooper 360 program and other news reports, that the bulk of the evidence included in the Summary of Evidence (Exhibit 34) was evidence that was true, accurate and had been widely reported, particularly the DNA evidence, the knife evidence, the investigation of Hobbs by the West Memphis Police Department and his statements that members of Stevie's family believed he was involved in the Murders. 31. Even a brief comparison of the Summary of the Evidence (Exhibit 34), which was also the Press Release (Exhibit 12), to the Letters reflects that I have "parroted" the Press Release (Exhibit 12) and Summary (Exhibit 34), which have summarized the Habeas evidence and the prior national news reports previously issued about Hobbs and the new evidence. Moreover, the Press Release and Summary (Exhibits 12,34) are each a summary of the evidence made public by the WM3 defense team at the major Press· Conference almost one month before I posted my Letters. Though the postscript mentions Hobbs by name and lists the evidence which pertains to Hobbs, it does not accuse Hobbs of the Murders, but PAGES 85148862.2/] 0900361 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 6 of 124 rather concludes that the credible evidence, some of which has nothing to do with Hobbs, demonstrates that the WM3 did not commit the Murders. 32. In the most fundamental way, the postscript is literally true: each piece of evidence I cite is, in fact just as I said, "evidence that will be presented in the federal court hearing." 33. I was careful when I wrote the Letters. At the time I prepared the Letters, which did not mention Hobbs in the body, I relied on my knowledge of the case, the specific language from the Summary (Exhibit 34), information from Lorri Davis, and information that been approved by the lawyers for Damien Echols. I had also watched the documentaries, the Press Conference by Echols' attorneys, the Anderson Cooper 360 feature on the WM3, and I had seen different news reports about the WM3. 34. More importantly, because I had stayed informed about the case by talking to Lorri Davis and relying upon her knowledge about the case, I acted to remain faithful to the language in the Surrunary (Exhibit 34) that she had sent me, and which I understood she had obtained from the Echols defense team. I was entitled to my opinion, and it was a well-informed one. 35. In early December, 2007, Lorri Davis asked me to make remarks at a WM3 Rally ("Rally"). 36. To help me prepare her remarks, publicist Alice Leeds ("Leeds") prepared a "Summary Message Points for Little Rock Rally." Attached to Pasdar's Appendix of Summary Judgment Evidence as Exhibit 39 is a true and correct copy of the Summary Message Points which Alice Leeds sent to my management company for my use, and the accompanying email. Hobbs is not referred to in the Summary of Message Points. 37. I did rely on the "Summary Message Points" (Exhibit 39) when making my remarks and I did not mention Hobbs during my brief statements at the Rally. 38. I am aware that only one fairly complete video of my remarks at the Rally is available. To the best of my recollection, I believe that attached to Pasdar's Appendix of Summary Judgment Evidence as Exhibit 5 ("Rally Transcript") is a true and accurate representation of some ofmy words at the Rally. 39. As can be seen in Exhibit 5, I do not mention or in any way refer to Terry Hobbs in my remarks. I do not even refer specifically to the forensic evidence. In my remarks, I make the following statement: "It's not about debate. It's about science and I've tried to find negative comments and it's hard to find - it's hard for people to open their mouths or debate something that has nOw been scientifically proven." PAGE 6 85148862.2/10900361 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 7 of 124 40. Nowhere in my comments at the Rally do I link what was scientifically proven to Hobbs. In fact, I was stating that it had been scientifically proven that there was no forensic evidence tying the WM3 to the crime scene and therefore it was hard to debate that they were wrongfully convicted. My point was that it has been scientifically proven the WM3 did not commit the Murders through the absence of evidence, and in my opinion, they are not the murderers. My comments do not state that it has been scientifically proven that Hobbs did commit the murders. 41. All of my statements, in both the Letters and at the Rally, are comments upon the same issues of public concern or controversy that the press and public had been speaking since 1994: whether the WM3 were wrongfully convicted. 42. This question of whether 'the WM3 actually committed the murders (and all of the issues attendant to that question: Who else could have murdered Chris Byers, Steve Branch and Michael Moore? Did law enforcement thoroughly investigate? Did law enforcement and prosecutors pin the murders on three innocents to avoid public outcry? Has the Arkansas legal system for the last 16 years turned a blind eye to errors in the trials? Are the interested government representatives protecting their current power through a defense of wrongful convictions? Have the authorities done all they can do to assure they convicted the actual murderers? Were the WM3 adequately represented at trial? Does Damien Echols deserve to be put to death? Why do prosecutors and law enforcement appear to refuse to consider Hobbs as a suspect with the evidence mounting against him?) go directly to the heart ofpublic concern and controversy. 43. Free and open debate on the workings and efficacy of law· enforcement and the criminal Justice system is vital to a decision-making electorate interested in the credibility and reliability of its government. 44. Whether "the system" works in general, and whether it worked in this specific instance is of fundamental concern to U.S. citizens who rely on government to "get it right" and do so in a fair and just manner. 45. Such questions go to the heart of the people's interests in their government, particularly, the issues of safety, fairness and abuse of power. While the events come out of Arkansas, they are nationwide issues because each American has a constitutional right to a fair trial, and each American citizen has an interest in making sure the system works and government is not abusing its power. 46. The language in the Letters demonstrates the "public-ness" of the topics: I request that readers. and listeners across the country become involved in righting the alleged wrong by donating money and educating themselves. I mention that many of the people working on the case have worked pro bono for 13 years, and that the costs associated with freeing those wrongfully convicted are high. And at the end of the Letters I articulate the very evidence that demonstrates that the WM3 convictions were wrongful, the publically known forensic and other evidence included in the Echols Habeas filing. Because much of that evidence -- PAGE 7 85148862.2110900361 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 8 of 124 that Hobbs' DNA was linked to 'the crime site, that Hobbs' friend's DNA was at the crime site, that Hobbs is in possession of a knife that belonged to a victim, that Hobbs did laundry at an unusual time, that members of Stevie's family thinks he was involved in the Murders, - involves ,Hobbs, to pr<?hibit me from citing the Hobbs evidence would be to gag me from disclosing the very evidence that might suggest wrongdoing ofvery public concern - wrongful convictions ofthe WM3. 47. 1am a citizen of the State of California~d a resident ofLos Angeles County. 48. I delivered my remarks at the Rally on December 19, 2007, more than six months before Hpbbs filed this lawsuit on November 25, 2008. 49. I bel1evethen, as I believe now, that my coillrnents at the Rally were truthful and factually accurate." 1declare under penalty that the foregoing is true and correct and that this declaration was executed in Los Angeles County, California. Dated: B ...·d2Q - ()~ 85148862.2110900361 By: PAGES . ' . ~w- . ", 'Ie asdar Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 9 of 124 E HIBIT 3 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 10 of 124 .,;.,,, . . ~ Dixie Chicks ~ Page 10f2 November 26, 2007 Letter from Natalie Maines: WM3 Call to Action I'm writing this letter today because I believe that three men have spent the past 13 years in prison for crimes they didn't commit. On May 5th, 1993 in West Memphis, Arkansas three 8 eight-year-old boys, Steve Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore were murdered, Three teenage boys, Damien Echols, Jesse Misskelley, and Jason Baldwin were convicted of the murders in 1994; Jason BaldWin and Jesse Misskelley received life sentenceS without parole, and Damien Echols sits on death row. I encourage everyone to see the HBO documentaries, Paradise Lost and Paradise Lost 2 for the whole history of the case. I only discovered the films about 6 months ago, and when I finished Paradise Lost 2 I immediately got online to make sure that these three wrongly convicted boys had been set free since the films were released. My heart sank when Ileamed that the boys were now men and were still in prison. I couldn't believe it. I searched for answers as to what had been done and what was being done to correct this injustice. I donated to the defense fund and received a letter from Damlen Echols Wife, Lorn. She is a lovely woman who has dedicated her time and heart to her husband. I was glad to hear that after so many years of fighting for justice it looked like things were finally happening. Below, I have written what the DNA and forensics evidence shows. I hope after reading it and looking at the WM3.org website, you will know that the wrong guys are sitting in jail right now, and feel compelled to help. Inspired and determined to see the justice system work, many people have worked on this case pro bono for the past 13 years. However, there are still costs that go along with the struggle'to freeing these three men. There has been a wonderful resurgence of interest by the media for this case, but nobody mentions the need for funds. Donations to the defense fund are desperately needed. DNA and forensics tests are expensive. They are also what will finally set these men free. Due to so many people's passion and generosity, what would normally be a case that costs millions is costing a fraction of that. I know around the holidays we all get inundated with deserving causes and charities that are in need of donations, but this can't wait! With all of the new evidence things are finally moving, and fast! Any money that you can donate is desperately needed to pay for the experts and the federal court hearing that is just weeks away. There is also a letter campaign that has been started by a new and energized group of people in Arkansas. ClJckJ)!m~ to download the sample letter. Signing and sending this letter makes it very diffICUlt for this case to be ignored. Please mail the letters to the following address: Arkansas Take Action Capi Peck, Coordinator P.O. Box 17788 Little Rock, AR 72222-7788 After SO many years it literally all comes down to this hearing, The evidence is so strong that at the very least the judge will grant a new trial, but hopefully he will overturn the verdict and these guys will finally be serit home to their lives and families. I know that this is a hard thing to just take my word on, so please look at the case and the evidence for yourself. I am confident that you will see the DNA evidence is irrefutable and that these three men did not get the kind of trial that is promised to us - as Americans. The system hasn't only failed Damien, Jesse, and Jason. but it has failed the three little boys that were murdered. Their kiUer(s) is still out there, and justice has yet to be served. Please know that your generosity will make a difference. Please know that your generosity will make a difference. Sincerely, Natalie Maines Pasdar The following is just some of the DNA and forensic evidence that will be presented in the federal court hearing. In late October, legal papers were filed in federal court in Arkansas showing that Damien Echols was wrongfully convicted. The 200-page court filing includes DNA evidence that fail to link any of the three boys http://www.dixiechicks.com/06-.pressDetail.asp?newsID=669 11/25/2008 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 11 of 124 , . .. (. • r Dixie Chicks .. Page 2 of2 to the crime scene. This is very important because the prosecution claimed that Echols had sodomized the victims. . -DNA tests also show that a hair belonging to Terry Hobbs, the step-father of one of the victims, was found in the ligature of one of the victims. -DNA tests also match a hair at the crime scene to a friend of Hobbs that was with him that day. -DNA test results show foreign DNA-from someone other than Echols. Misskelly, or Baldwin-on the penises of two of the victims. -SCientifIC analysis from some of the nation's leading forensics experts, stating that wounds on the viCtims' bodies were caused by animals at the crime scene-not by knives used by the perpetrators, as the prosecution claimed. These wounds were the centerpiece of the prosecution's case, and evidenCe was presented that a knife recovered from a lake near one defendant's home caused the wounds. -Sworn affidavits outlining new evidence uncovered by Pam Hobbs (the ex-wife of Terry Hobbs) who found a knife in Terry Hobbs' drawer that her son (one of the Victims) had carried with him at all times. After her son was killed, the knife was not among his personal effects that police gave to the Hobbs family, and Pam Hobbs always assumed that her son's murderer had taken it during the crime. -Newinformation implicating Terry Hobbs-including his own statements made to police in recent interviews where he acknowledged that several of his relatives suspect him in the crime. The filing also includes a chronology of Hobbs' activities on the night of the crimes, when he washed his clothes and sheets at odd hours for no reason other than to hide evidence from the crimes. - A swom affidavit that refutes hearsay evidence from Echols' trial. The mother of one of two girls who testified that they overheard Echols admit to the crime at a softball game now says that Echols' statement was not serious and that neither she nor her daughter believes he committed the crime. P.ri.v;,J.!;Y p~qJ.i~y I Tt!:rnJ.l? .~od.~C..Qnd.i!i.qn_$. QLl)_~.~ Website Design and Programming by Sill Young Producttons, Inc. http://www.dixiechicks.com/06-'pressDetail.asp?newsID=669 11/25/2008 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 12 of 124 E HIBIT Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 13 of 124 I'm writing this letter today because three men have spent the past 13 years in prison for crimes they didn't commit. On May 5th, 1993 in West Memphis, Arkansas three 8 eight-year-old boys, Steve Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore were murdered. Three teenage boys, Damien Echols, Jesse Misskelley, and Jason Baldwin were convicted of the murders in 1994. Jason Baldwin and Jesse Misskelley received life sentences without parole, and Damien Echols sits on death row. I encourage everyone to see the HBO documentaries, Paradise Lost and Paradise Lost 2 for the whole history of the case. I only discovered the films about 6 months ago, and when I finished Paradise Lost 2 I immediately got online to make sure that these three wrongly convicted boys had been set free since the films were released. My heart sank when I learned that the boys were now men and were still in prison. I couldn't believe it. I searched for answers as to what had been done and what was being done to correct this injustice. I donated to the defense fund and received a letter from Damien Echols wife, Lorri. She is a lovely woman who has dedicated her time and heart to her husband. I was glad to hear that after so many years of fighting for justice it looked like things were finally happening. Below, I have written what the DNA and forensics evidence shows. I hope after reading it and looking at the WM3.org website, you will know that the wrong guys are sitting in jail right now, and feel compelled to help. Inspired and determined to see the justice system work, many people have worked on this case pro bono for the past 13 years. However, there are still costs that go along with the process of freeing these three men. There has been a wonderful resurgence of interest by the media for this case, but nobody mentions the need for funds. Donations to the defense fund are desperately needed. DNA and forensics tests are expensive. They are also what will finally set these men free. Due to so many people's passion and generosity, what would normally be a case that costs millions is costing a fraction of that. I know around the holidays we all get inundated with deserving causes and charities that are in need of donations, but this can't wait! With all of the new evidence things are finally moving, and fast! Any money that you can donate is desperately needed to pay for the experts and the federal court hearing that is just weeks away. There is also a letter campaign that has been started by a new and energized group of people in Arkansas. By clicking on this link, you can download the sample letter. Signing and sending this letter makes it very difficult for this case to be ignored. Please mail the letters to the following address: . Arkansas Take Action Capi Peck, Coordinator P.O. Box 17788 Little Rock, AR 72222-7788 After so many years it literally comes down to this hearing. The evidence is so strong that at the very least the judge will grant a new trial, but hopefully he will overturn the verdict and these guys will finally be sent home to their lives and families. I know that this is a hard thing to just take my word on, so please look at the case and the evidence for yourself. I am confident that you will see the DNA evidence is irrefutable and that these three men did not get the kind of trial that is promised to us - as Americans. The system hasn't only failed Damien, Jesse, and Jason, but it has failed the three little boys that were murdered. Their killer(s) is still out there, and justice has yet to be served. Please know that your generosity will make a difference. Sincerely, Natalie Maines Pasdar Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 14 of 124 The following is just some of the DNA and forensic evidence that will be presented in the federal court hearing. In late October, legal papers were filed in federal court in Arkansas showing that Damien Echols was wrongfully convicted. The 200-page court filing includes DNA evidence that fail to link any of the three boys to the crime scene. This is very . important because the prosecution claimed that Echols had sodomized the victims. -DNA tests also show that a hair belonging to Terry Hobbs, the step-father of one of the victims, was found in the ligature of one of the victims. - DNA tests also match a hair at the crime scene to a friend of Hobbs that was with him that day. -DNA test results show foreign DNA-from someone other than Echols, Misskelly, or Baldwin-on the penises of two of the victims. -Scientific analysis from some of the nation's leading forensics experts, stating that wounds on the victims' bodies were caused by animals at the crime scene-not by knives used by the perpetrators, as the prosecution claimed. These wounds were the centerpiece of the prosecution's case, and evidence was presented that a knife recovered from a lake near one defendant's home caused the wounds. -Sworn affidavits outlining new evidence uncovered by Pam Hobbs (the ex-wife of Terry Hobbs) who found a knife in Terry Hobbs' drawer that her son (one of the Victims) had carried with him at all times. After her son was killed, the knife was not among his personal effects that police gave to the Hobbs family, and Pam Hobbs always assumed that her son's murderer had taken it during the crime. -New information implicating Terry Hobbs-including his own statements made to police in recent interviews where he acknowledged that several of his relatives suspect him in the crime. The filing also includes a chronology of Hobbs' activities on the night of the crimes, when he washed his clothes and sheets at odd hours for no reason other than to hide evidence from the crimes. -A sworn affidavit that refutes hearsay evidence from Echols' trial. The mother of one of two girls who testified that they overheard Echols admit to the crime at a softball game now says that Echols' statement was not serious and that neither she nor her daughter believes he committed the crime. Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 15 of 124 E IBIT 5 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 16 of 124 NashvilleGab Video: Thank: you. I have papers will help better. I just wanted to say thanks for being here today and I think: every face and person does make a difference and I think: these letters will matter. I think: it's important for our elected officials don't know about but all elected officials to know that we are watching them and we care about the decisions that they make and what they pay attention to so I think: it does matter that each one of you is here today and that people sign these petitions. You know people ask me all the time why I am interested in this and why I'm involved and I think: looking around at these postcards and letters is exactly why I'm here. When you see the films and when you go to the website and you learn about the case and all the evidence that is there now you just feel like what can I do? Any little thing and everyone you know these people from around the world wrote a postcard and I went on the website and learned more and donated to the defense fund and got a response from Laurie and started a dialog and relationship with her and I'm here because she asked me to be here and you just want to do anything you can to right this wrong and I remember just feeling - I'm just amazed that these guys are still in prison and that they turn into men in prison. It's not about opinion any more. It's not about debate. It's about science and I've tried to find negative comments and it's hard to find - it's hard for people to open their mouths or debate something that has now been scientifically proven, something I knew in my gut after I watched the films that these three guys did not do these crimes. So I just wanted to say I'm honored to be here. Laurie is a wonderful wonderful person and she's what has kept this going for 14 years and made people not to forget about the West Memphis Three so I'm just happy to be here and I urge you all to go WM3.org and donate to the defense fund. The donations is what has paid for the forensic tests and the DNA testing that's going to set these men free so thank you very much. - 1 - PASDAR 1567 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 17 of 124 E HIBIT 6 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 18 of 124 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF ARKANSAS WESTERN DIVISION TERRY HOBBS, Plaintiff, v. NATALIE PASDAR, et al., Defendants. § § § § § § § CV NO.: 4-09-CV-0008BSM DECLARATION OF LORRI DAVIS I, Lorri Davis, declare as follows: 1. "My name is Lorri Davis. I am over the age of 21 and competent to give this declaration. 2. All of the information set forth herein is within my personal knowledge and is in all things true and correct. 3. I am the wife of Damien Echols. I am a lead activist in the fight to free Damien Echols ("Echols"), Jason Baldwin ("Baldwin") and Misskelley ("Misskelley"), who are known as the West Memphis 3 (collectively, the "WM3"). I 4. The publishing and recording industries have seized on the Murders, the trials, the victims, the victims' families, the WM3, whether or not the WM3 were actually the killers and whether the WM3 were wrongfully convicted (collectively, the "Events"). The Events have been a topic of great national and international interest for many years, particularly whether the WM3 were wrongfully convicted. In fact, the issue of whether the WM3 were wrongfully convicted has resulted in nationwide press coverage of the Events. Several nonfiction books about the Robin Hood Hills Murders, the WM3, the victims and their families have been written and nationally distributed, including the 1995 book Blood of Innocents: The True Story of Multiple Murder in West Memphis, Arkansas, the October 2002, book, The Devil's Knot: The True Story of the West Memphis 3, and Echols' own June 3, 2003 book, Almost Home: My Life Story Vol 1. These books are currently available for purchase at local bookstores and on websites such as Amazon.com. Additionally, a collection of essays and fiction writings, The Last Pentacle of the Sun: Writings in Support of the West Memphis 3, was published as a fundraiser for the Damien Echols Defense Fund in October, 2004. In 1996, the film Paradise Lost was released and the Hobbs interview was broadcast across the country on cable channel HBO. The film has been available for viewing ever since, through DVD and VHS rentals and purchases. Both Paradise Lost documentaries have been critically acclaimed: the first PAGE 1 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 19 of 124 documentary won multiple awards, including a Peabody Award and an Emmy Award for Outstanding Achievement in Informational Programming, and it was nominated for several other awards. 5. The nationwide publicity surrounding the WM3 case has created a large network of active WM3 supporters. 6. Echols receives over 2000 letters and cards each year. The WM3.org website, which is devoted to freeing the WM3, receives an average of 70,000 "hits" per month. I estimate that I have fielded more than 10,000 emails and letters regarding the case since 1996. 7. Numerous celebrities including: comedienne Margaret Cho, rock group Pearl Jam lead singer Eddie Vedder, actor Will Ferrell, actress Winona Ryder, singer Henry Rollins, members of the rock group Metallica and many others have all made pleas for funds and donated their music, their images and their time, to the WM3 cause. Even a musical album entitled "Free the West Memphis 3" has been nationally released with songs by Eddie Vedder, Tom Waits, Steve Earle, and L7. 8. Since the convictions of the WM3, new evidence has come to light, including DNA test results as discussed in recent federal court filings. The DNA testing was performed by the Bode Lab in Virginia, which has been approved by the State of Arkansas for use in criminal proceedings. As the head of the Damien Echols Defense Fund, I have been intimately involved in hiring investigators and publicists to assist in information gathering and public relations in Echols' case. In so doing, I have made a point to stay apprised of the investigation and new evidence and provide input as to how information regarding that evidence is disseminated to the public. Specifically, I was involved funding DNA testing in the Echols case, and the investigators and defense team kept me informed of any new DNA test results or other new evidence as soon as such information was available. In May 2007, the DNA test results and analysis came back, and Dennis Riordan informed me of the possible link between Hobbs and a hair found at the crime scene in the ligature binding Michael Moore. At that time, it was not the strategy of the Damien Echols Defense Fund, or to the best of my knowledge, anyone else affiliated with the WM3, to make public the DNA test results. Based on conversations with the publicists and investigators working for the WM3, it is also my understanding that no one affiliated with the WM3 leaked the news of the Hobbs DNA evidence to the press. It is my understanding that during the course of their investigation, Ron Lax and the WM3 investigators alerted Hobbs to the fact that the DNA tests had revealed a hair matching his in the ligature of Michael Moore. 9. On October 29, 2007, Echols filed a Second Amended Petition for Writ of Habeas Corpus by a Person in State Custody ("Habeas Petition.") and a Memorandum of Points and Authorities in Support of Second Amended Petition for Writ of Habeas Corpus ("Habeas Memo"), with new evidence in support, requesting this Court set aside his conviction and sentence. PAGE 2 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 20 of 124 10. The Habeas Petition filing was over 200 pages and included the DNA evidence made the subject of Hobbs' lawsuit against Ms. Pasdar. 11. Echols has been represented throughout the Habeas proceeding by, among others, San Francisco attorney Dennis Riordan. 12. Near the time of the filing of the Habeas Petition, the Echols defense team put out a press release (originally drafted by Echols' publicist Alice Leeds) summarizing the new evidence in the Echols case (the "Press Release"). A true and correct copy of the Press Release is attached to Pasdar's Appendix of Summary Judgment Evidence as Exhibit 12. A draft of the Press Release was circulated by three of Echols' lawyers, Dennis Riordan, Donald Horgan, Gerald Skahan and to me for approval. We all approved the draft ofthe Press Release. A true and correct copy of the email from Ms. Leeds to the lawyers and me forwarding the draft of the Press Release is attached to Pasdar's Appendix of Summary Judgment Evidence as Exhibit 32. The bullet points summarizing the evidence contained in the Press Release (Exhibit 12) are identical to those same points listed in the draft of the Press Release circulated and approved by the attorneys and me (Exhibit 32). The Habeas Petition and all other aspects of the WM3 cases have been public: the trials were held publically, the post-conviction filings have been filed publically, and the Habeas hearing will be a public hearing. 13. The Press Release set forth the following bullet points which listed the new forensic evidence discussed in the Habeas Petition or otherwise in the possession of the defense team: • DNA test results showing that a hair found in the ligature of one of the victims matches Terry Hobbs, the step-father of another one of the victims. • DNA test results showing foreign DNA - on the penises of two of the victims - from someone other than Echols or the other two men who were convicted. • DNA test results matching a hair at the crime scene to a man who was with Terry Hobbs on the day of the crimes. This places Hobbs at the scene of the crime, since it refutes any theory that the Hobbs' hair (found in the ligature of one of the victims) was there before the crime. e Scientific analysis from some of the nation's leading forensics experts, stating that wounds on the victims' bodies were caused by animals at the crime scene - not knives used by the perpetrators, as the prosecution claimed at the time of the trials. These wounds were the centerpiece of the prosecution's case, and evidence was presented that a knife recovered from a lake near one defendant's home caused the wounds. The conclusive expert analysis showing that animals caused the wounds after the victims died also undercuts the testimony of a jailhouse informant (who testified about Echols using a knife to cause the wounds) and a discredited "expert" who testified that the knife wounds were part of a satanic ritual. PAGE 3 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 21 of 124 .. Sworn affidavits outlining new evidence uncovered by (Pam Hobbs) (the ex­ wife of Terry Hobbs) who found a knife in Terry Hobbs' drawer that her son (one of the victims) had carried with him at all times. After her son was killed, the knife was not among his personal effects that police gave to the Hobbs family, and Pam Hobbs always assumed that her son's murderer had taken it during the crime. .. New information implicating Terry Hobbs - including his own statements made to police in recent interviews where he acknowledged that several of his relatives suspect him in the crime. The filing also includes a chronology of Hobbs' activities on the night of the crimes, when he washed his clothes and sheets at odd hours for no reason other than to hide evidence from the crimes. • A sworn affidavit that refutes hearsay evidence from Echols' trial. The mother of one of two girls who testified that they overheard Echols admit to the crime at a softball game now says that Echols' statement was not serious and that neither she nor her daughter believes he committed the crime. 14. The following bullet point in the Press Release is also exculpatory evidence as it pertains to suspicion of Terry Hobbs: "DNA test results show foreign DNA from someone other than Echols, Misskelley, or Baldwin on the penises of two of the victims." 15. On November 2, 2007, Echols' attorneys held a press conference to discuss the Habeas Petition and the new evidence ("Press Conference"). I am the custodian of records for the Damien Echols Defense Fund. Attached to Pasdar's Appendix of Summary Judgment Evidence as Exhibit 12 ("Press Release"), Exhibit 13 ("Press Conference Transcript"), Exhibit 33 ("Pasdar WM3 Emails"), Exhibit 34 ("Davis Summary Email", Exhibit 37 ("Pasdar Donation Email"), Exhibit 36 ("Pasdar Letter Emails") and Exhibit 38 ("Davis Rally Emails") are true and correct copies of thirty-four (34) pages of memorandum, reports, records, or data compilation, of acts, events, conditions or opinions, made at or near the time of those acts, events, conditions or opinions by, or from information transmitted by, a person with knowledge of those acts, events conditions or opinions. These records have been kept in the course of the Damien Echols Defense Fund's regularly conducted business activities, and it is the regular practice of the Damien Echols Defense Fund to make such memorandum, reports, records or data compilations. 16. At the Press Conference, in addition to discussing the Echols Petition generally and the arguments made therein, the Echols lawyers and experts specifically discussed Terry Hobbs and his relationship to the evidence, including his whereabouts and actions on the night of the Murders, Pam Hobbs' discovery Stevie's pocketknife in Terry Hobbs' possessions, and Pam Hobbs' family's suspicions that Hobbs was involved in the Murders. PAGE 4 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 22 of 124 17. At the Press Conference, the experts and attorneys also discussed evidence related to the lake knife and lack of knife wounds on the victims, postmortem animal injuries, and foreign DNA on the penis of Steven Branch which could not be linked to any victim or defendant. 18. Former FBI criminal profiler John Douglas at the Press Conference expressed his opinion that the killer's profile was consistent with Terry Hobbs. 19. A video of the Press Conference was immediately posted on the WM3.org website where it has remained available for public viewing ever since. 20. The video of the Press Conference is also available on YouTube or through a simple Google search of "West Memphis 3 Press Conference." 21. The Press Conference, the Press Release, and Terry Hobbs, received substantial national attention. 22. Natalie Pasdar contacted me to discuss the trials, the appeals and the evidence related to the WM3. 23. From May 2007 to present, Pasdar and I communicated informally through email and phone calls, and I educated Pasdar about the Murders, the wrongful convictions of the WM3, the evidence and the WM3 attempts to be released from Prison. 24. On June 28, 2007, Pasdar donated money to the Damien Echols Trust Account to assist with his legal fees, as reflected in Exhibit 37. 25. Pasdar also actively sought updates and information about the case from those familiar with the WM3 and involved in the effort to prove their innocence. 26. On November 12, 2007, Pasdar emailed me about the ANDERSON COOPER 360 SHOW, and Exhibit 33 is a true and correct of that email exchange. 27. As noted in Exhibit 33, Pasdar told me in early November 2007 that she was thinking of ideas for raising money for the Echols defense team. 28. As noted in Exhibit 33, soon thereafter, Pasdar, with the help of her managers at Strategic Artist Management, began trying to organize a screening of the Paradise Lost films in Los Angeles to raise awareness of and money for the WM3. 29. As noted in Exhibit 33, on November 16,2007, Pasdar informed me that she was taking further action; she was "putting a letter together ... with a link to find out more information and donate." 30. At that time, Pasdar again donated to the defense fund. PAGES Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 23 of 124 31. On November 17, 2007, I emailed Pasdar a document titled "Summary of New Evidence in Damien Echols (and the "West Memphis 3") Case" ("Summary"), and Exhibit 34 is a true and correct copy of that Summary and email exchange. 32. This Summary (Exhibit 34) is the final version of the draft of the Press Release prepared by publicist Alice Leeds and circulated to Echols' defense attorneys Riordan, Donald Horgan and Gerald Skahan and to me. I approved the Press Release, and it is my understanding that the lawyers approved it as well. Exhibit 12 is a true and correct copy of that final Press Release. 33. The Press Release (Exhibit 12)/Summary (Exhibit 34) contained information which had been public since July 2007. 34. I offered the Summary to Pasdar as a list of possible "talking points" for the fundraising letter Pasdar was putting together. 35. The following are bullet points of evidence contained in the Summary I sent to Pasdar (they are identical to the bullet points in the Press Release released to the Press). It DNA test results showing that a hair found in the ligature of one of the victims matches Terry Hobbs, the step-father of another one of the victims. CD DNA test results showing foreign DNA - on the penises of two of the victims - from someone other than Echols or the other two men who were convicted. It DNA test results matching a hair at the crime scene to a man who was with Terry Hobbs on the day of the crimes. This places Hobbs at the scene of the crime, since it refutes any theory that the Hobbs' hair (found in the ligature of one of the victims) was there before the crime. It Scientific analysis from some of the nation's leading forensics experts, stating that wounds on the victims' bodies were caused by animals at the crime scene - not knives used by the perpetrators, as the prosecution claimed. These wounds were the centerpiece of the prosecution's case, and evidence was presented that a knife recovered from a lake near one defendant's home caused the wounds. The conclusive expert analysis showing that animals caused the wounds after the victims died also completely undercuts the testimony of a jailhouse informant (who testified about Echols using a knife to cause the wounds) and a discredited "expert" who testified that the knife wounds were part of a satanic ritual. CD Sworn affidavits outlining new evidence uncovered by Pam Hobbs (the ex­ wife of Terry Hobbs) who found a knife in Terry Hobbs' drawer that her son (one of the victims) had carried with him at all times. After her son was killed, the knife was not among his personal effects that police gave to the PAGE 6 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 24 of 124 Hobbs family, and Pam Hobbs always assumed that her son's murderer had taken it during the crime. • New information implicating Terry Hobbs - including his own statements made to police in recent interviews where he acknowledged that several of his relatives suspect him in the crime. The filing also includes a chronology of Hobbs' activities on the night of the crimes, when he washed his clothes and sheets at odd hours for no reason other than to hide evidence from the crimes. • A sworn affidavit that refutes hearsay evidence from Echols' trial. The mother of one of two girls who testified that they overheard Echols admit to the crime at a softball game now says that Echols' statement was not serious and that neither she nor her daughter believes he committed the crime. 36. On November 20, 2007, Pasdar emailed me a draft of her letter and asked for feedback. I enthusiastically approved of the letter and believed that the words stated therein were true and correct. Attached to Pasdar's Appendix of Summary Judgment Evidence at Exhibit 36 ("Pasdar Letter Emails") (DAVIS 024-026) is a true and correct copy of that email exchange between me and Pasdar. 37. It was obvious from Pasdar's letter that she "parroted" the Press Release/Summary in the postscript portion of her letter. 38. The Summary (Exhibit 34) is a summary of the evidence made public by the WM3 defense team at a major Press Conference almost one month before Pasdar poster her Letters 39. I have reviewed the Habeas Petition, Memo and Evidence. The Habeas Petition, Memo and Evidence, correctly reflect and summarize what evidence "will be presented in the federal court hearing." The evidence relied on by Pasdar in the Letters is in fact included in the Habeas papers 40. In early December, 2007, I asked Pasdar to make remarks at a WM3 Rally. Exhibit 38 is a true and correct copy of that email exchange. 41. To help Pasdar prepare her remarks, publicist Alice Leeds prepared a "Summary Message Points for Little Rock Rally." 42. Pasdar delivered her remarks at the Rally on December 19, 2007. At no time during the rally did Pasdar mention or refer to Hobbs. All of Pasdar's statements at the rally were true and correct. 43. All of Pasdar's statements, in both the Letters and at the Rally, are comments upon the same issues of public concern or controversy that the press and public had been speaking since 1994: whether the WM3 were wrongfully convicted. 44. This question of whether the WM3 committed the murders and other related questions like Did law enforcement thoroughly investigate? Were the WM3 PAGE 7 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 25 of 124 adequately represented at trial? Why is Hobbs not a suspect? go directly to the heart of public concern and controversy. 45. Free and open debate on the workings and efficacy of law enforcement and the criminal justice system is necessary to a free and just democratic society. Citizens are interested in these issues. 46. Citizens of this country care about whether "the system" works. They care about whether it worked in this specific instance because citizens want the government to "get it right" and do so in a fair and just manner. 47. All Americans' interests in their government safety, fairness and abuse of power are fundamental. Though Murders occurred in Arkansas, the nationwide and worldwide support for the WM3 exemplifies the commonality of this intense global interest in ensuring that governments do not abuse power at the expense of individual rights." I declare under penalty that the foregoing is true and correct and that this declaration was executed in Pulaski County, Arkansas. Dated: $. / S PAGE 8 , 1/' BY:~~ ~iaViS Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 26 of 124 E HIBIT 7 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 27 of 124 1 2 3 4 5 Page 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF ARKANSAS WESTERN DISTRICT TERRY HOBBS, Plaintiff, 6 7 8 9 VS. NATALIE PASDAR, Individually, and NATALIE PASDAR, EMILY ROBISON, and MARTHA SIEDEL, d/b/a DIXIE CHICKS, DEFENDANTS. CV NO.: 4-09-CV-0008BSM 10 11 12 13 DEPOSITION 14 OF 15 ROSS A. SAMPSON 16 July 23, 2009 17 MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE 18 19 20 ATKINSON-BAKER, INC. 21 COURT REPORTERS 500 North Brand Boulevard, Third Floor 22 Glendale, California 91203 (818) 551-7300 23 www.depo.com REPORTED BY: DANETTE CROUCH, CSR 24 FILE NO.: A306814 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 28 of 124 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 P~2 The deposition of ROSS A. SAMPSON is taken on behalf of the Defendants, on this the 23rd day of July, 2009, pursuant to notice and consent of counsel, beginning at approximately 9:08 a.m. in the offices of Ross A. Sampson, 605 Poplar Avenue, Memphis, Tennessee, 38105, (901) 575-9922. This deposition is taken pursuant to the terms and provisions of the Federal Rules of civil Procedure. All forms and formalities, including the signature of the witness, are waived and objections alone as to matters of competency, relevancy and materiality of the testimony are reserved, to be presented and disposed of at or before the hearing. Objections as to the form of the question must be made at the taking of the deposition. Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 29 of 124 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 3 A P PEA RAN C E S FOR THE PLAINTIFF, TERRY HOBBS: J. CODY HILAND HILAND LAW FIRM 557 LOCUST AVENUE CONWAY, ARKANSAS 72034 (501) 679-3940 FOR THE DEFENDANT, DIXIE CHICKS: ROBERT WELLENBERGER THOMPSON, COE, COUSINS & IRONS, L.L.P. 700 NORTH PEARL STREET PLAZA OF THE AMERICAS TWENTY-FIFTH FLOOR DALLAS, TEXAS 75201-2832 (214) 871-8257 FOR THE DEFENDANT, NATALIE PASDAR: D'LESLI DAVIS, ESQ. FULBRIGHT & JAWORSKI, L.L.P. 2200 ROSS AVENUE SUITE 2800 DALLAS, TEXAS 75201-2784 (214) 855-8000 VIDEOGRAPHER: GENE CHAMBERS, CCVS Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 30 of 124 Page 18 the court reporter. been substantial national press coverage of the murders themselves. press coverage of the arrest, trial and conviction of the West Memphis 3. regarding the appeals filed by the West Memphis 3. A True. Q And there's been significant and expansive national press coverage and attention given to whether the West Memphis 3 were actually the murderers that committed the murders on May 5th of 1993. And let There's Correct. Correct. There's been expansive national press Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. There's been substantial national I need you to say "yes" or "no" for Oh, yeah. And when I refer to "those events," Dh-huh. A A Q A Q A Q me define my term "events" for you. I'm talking about a sequence of events. A Q 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 31 of 124 Q And that's gone on literally since the time of the murders. Q And certainly by early 2007, when this DNA evidence was released, the press coverage of Mr. Hobbs in particular became much more heavy. A Oh, after the release of the -- of stepfather. Q Because he's the stepfather, exactly. There has -- there have been interview requests made from press outlets across the country seeking to interview Mr. Hobbs; correct? press attention regarding the families of the victims themselves. A I would -- the families, not really. More so the event. Yeah, I would agree with that, on the event itself; but the families, they're kind of -- not really. Q You would certainly agree that there's been expansive national attention given to Mr. Hobbs? Because he's the Sure. Correct. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yes and no. Page 19 And there's been expansive national A A A Q 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 32 of 124 Page 20 course, sure. (Whereupon, Exhibit No. 9 Q And I understand you don't have the full chronology in front of you right this second, and we'll go through a few of these news articles; but if I represent to you that in May, June and July of 2007 it was made public that Mr. Hobbs' DNA was a match for a hair found at the crlme scene, if that was made public, then Q --- it's fair to say that the press coverage of Mr. Hobbs has been particularly intense nationally since that time. A Since that -- well, during that time period it did, but it ebbs and -- it ebbs and flows with whatever new -- new thing happens with this case. Q Certainly from May, June, July of 2007 through the remainder of 2007 there was heavy national press attention on Mr. Hobbs. A I don't -- I guess the answer to that would be was that the time period I was involved in this? Dh-huh. A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 33 of 124 national cable television show, Anderson Cooper Memphis 3 and Damien Echols' lawyers is on November 1st of 2007. by July of 2007. A Okay. chronology a second. Yeah, and let me --- Page 2] was marked to the testimony of the witness.) and I'll prove that to you here in Right. Right. --- on I believe November 7th of 2007. That sounds about right. So, if we look at that as the Okay. And you and Mr. Hobbs appear on the The press conference by the West Uh-huh. The DNA evidence comes out certainly (By Ms. Davis) Okay. And I will show you some news Q A 360 A Q A Q Q A Q A articles. Q A Q 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 34 of 124 Page 23 was intense --- July of 2007 --- A Uh-huh. Q then -- just press coverage, not that you were involved in it. Q Is that a fair statement or do you just not know? A Well, like I said, I'm pretty sure that my involvement with this was maybe a three -- two-, three-week period, end of October, November. And that's just what I'm recalling, but I just don't remember the summer of '07. Q Fair enough. And that will narrow the time period that we --- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 scene A Q A Q A Q of 2007. A Uh-huh. --- occurred and was made public in Right. But just press coverage of Mr. Hobbs Uh-huh. --- from July of 2007 through the end Okay. Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 35 of 124 can't give you a definitive date; but, like I said, that time period, it was, you know, maybe a two- to three-week time period of dealing with the various media requests, the various denials of whatever people were implying with everything; and I think the apex of it all was the Anderson Cooper, and that was pretty much the articles -- and I'll show you all these in just a moment. But in one of the articles it appears that there is a statement that Mr. Hobbs hired you on Monday, October 29th, 2007; and I don't know that hire is the right word. Maybe it's retained. But that you began to represent Mr. Hobbs as his spokesperson with the media around October 29th of 2007. Does that sound right to you? A I can run with that, yes. Q And where then would you draw the line and say that you were no longer representing Mr. Hobbs as spokesperson to the media, if there has been an end to that? Well, I guess to that end, I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q A Yeah. --- that we can focus on. Right. Page 24 In one of Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 36 of 124 Page 25 Q would that sound correct to you? Have you seen those articles? it. Maybe locally -- a couple of things locally, but --- Q Okay. And if -- if we then were thinking about October 29th as being the start, November 7th of 2007 as being Anderson Cooper, and you're saying two or three weeks, it would certainly A Yeah. Q be fair by the end of November 2007 you were no longer Mr. Hobbs' spokesperson. A That would be fair to say as far as any other appearances or things like that. I'm sure I've had, you know, several phonecalls from him over time. It hasn't been cut off like that, but as far as anything publicly done, yes. Q If I represent to you that after November of 2007 Mr. Hobbs has given a number of interviews to the press in which he's discussed the DNA, whether he was involved in the murders, his book deal, the state of his marriage, the state of his family, a number of topics --- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Right. Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 37 of 124 Q And let me ask you this: Was there any other time period, besides late October, early November of 2007, where you acted as a spokesperson or an intermediary between Mr. Hobbs and the press? Page 27 Q Do you -- do you recall whether you received any fees for your work as Mr. Hobbs' spokesman to the media? A During that time period? Q Yes. (Whereupon, Exhibit No. 10 was marked to the testimony of the wi tness. ) Q (By Ms. Davis) Let me show you Deposition Exhibit No. 10, which is, for the record, Stipulation 1, Exhibit 24. It's a My Fox Memphis news article in which -- the title is, "Hobbs attorney unconcerned by new West Memphis 3 evidence." And I direct your attention to the paragraph that says, "Hobbs would only speak through his attorney." 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A A A No. Not -- no. Dh-huh. Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 38 of 124 Damien Echols was filing his habeas corpus petition appealing essentially the judgment that had been entered against him. Page 28 Q "Hobbs hired him Monday after learning his name was involved in the latest effort to free the West Memphis 3," and you can see the really affect us at all," and that, "The perception is that this is somehow an accusation against Mr. Hobbs, and we don't perceive that as such. ll What did you mean by those comments? A That was my interpretation of what of the process that's going on in Arkansas regarding the pending appeal. Q The date of this Deposition Exhibit No. 10 is October 31st of 2007. date of this article is October the 31st. I Uh-huh. And that happens to be the date that So, does that sound right? Uh-huh, sure. Your comments are that, "This doesn't A Q Q just wanted to point out, that's where I'm getting the October 29th, 2007 date. A Understood. Q A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 39 of 124 Page 29 the media regarding several things: the DNA because the evidence that was I guess -- I don't corpus, and other forensic evidence --- A Right. that was -- that was being I guess distributed to the media, it was being interpreted incorrectly. The information That's to say Uh-huh. --- evidence, the filing of the habeas Uh-huh. --- were distributing information to And when you mention the information No. No, no, no. Uh-huh. Is that one of the reasons that you A Q Q A Q that was being distributed to the media - - - A Uh-huh. Q you were talking about the fact that the West Memphis 3 attorneys and defense team and investigators even want to call it evidence. chose to give the interview on October 31st, 2007, that is to say, because Mr. Echols was filing his habeas corpus petition? A A Q 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 40 of 124 November 1st of 2007 DNA evidence. get Damien Echols out of jail? believe you recognize had been in the public purview for several months prior to October 31st of 2007. I believe it was Page 30 --- that they were going to raise to Yes. In fact, you will recall that around Sure. But there was a new heat being raised Dh-huh. the Damien Echols defense team and Right, but primarily it was the DNA -- And that is the DNA evidence that I October 31st Q A Q investigators gave a press conference setting forth all of this evidence that they had, including the evidence that they claimed implicated Mr. Hobbs. A about that evidence as a result of Mr. Echols' habeas filing and the subsequent or contemporaneous information being given to the press by that defense team. A Q Q Q A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 41 of 124 Page 31 time, he was going through a lot. Q And what do you mean by that? Q Is it fair to say that you were trying to get Mr. Hobbs' version of events out there? A No. No, I was trying to just get him some relief. A version of events that kind of time, meaning November 1st of 2007, a press release that the West Memphis 3 lawyers and publicists and investigators had issued to the media regarding the filing, the forensic evidence, the DNA and whatnot; correct? A If I remember right, yes. Q And as a direct result of the press attention focused on Mr. Hobbs through the actions of the West Memphis 3 defense team and investigators, you stepped in to try to make some clarification. implicate or says, "We've got a story." It was He's -- at that Sure. Correct. Including the DNA evidence. Correct. And there was also about that same more so to defend Mr. Hobbs. A A Q A Q 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 42 of 124 the newspaper articles and TV coverage about the horrific event r you're talking about the murder of the stepson? Q --- it ebbed and flowed in intensity? A Right r right. And you have to understand r like I -- I believe I met Mr. Hobbs actually read the -- you know, read up on it to figure out what -- you know r what they were talking about. Then I And there has been -- in addition to I didn't know r you know r what the West Right. Right r right r right. And it's fair to say that from 1993 And r of courser with regard to the Page 32 Just with all the press coverage and Q Memphis 3 was until I met these people. in 2006. A Q A Q through to the end of 2007 r there was continuous press coverage on these events; although r as you've testified all of the other things that being connected with such a -- I guess a horrific event r he was -- you know r he was just -- he's just a regular dude. A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 43 of 124 Page 35 Is that Of course. A Q And there's a statement that says, "Hobbs is not talking now after defense attorneys filed a 700-page document in federal court detailing new evidence." I won't walk you through that same list of questions; but in short, this interview was given much like the you mean by that statement? A Let me look at it. (Witness reading: allegation, DNA evidence, allegation) I'm -­ I have to think back, but I'm sure I was -- the allegation that Mr. Hobbs had something to do with the murder of the stepson is ridiculous. Q And so -- you need to take a break? A Excuse me. Huh-uh. Q And so, in giving this interview, one of your goals was to get out -- in response to the media request, get out the position of Terry Hobbs that he was not involved in the murders? you also have given an interview. correct? A Looks like it, yes. Q And your -- your comment is, "The allegation itself is ridiculous." And what did 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 44 of 124 Page 36 Q Do you have any independent recollection as to whether you gave some sort of press conference at which other -- you know, last one, as a response to the intense media coverage brought on by the actions of the West Memphis 3' defense and investigators. A Okay. Say that again, please. Q Sure. This interview was given much like the last one, ln response -- the date of this is November 1st. Q --- in response to the filing of the habeas corpus, the new evidence that was out there, and the media efforts made by the West Memphis 3 investigators and defense. A Okay. It may have been -- if I remember, it may have all been the same thing. Because this was on Channel 5. This one -- and this was on Fox. So I want to say they all did this at the same time --- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q A Q A Okay. Let me ask you about this. but I don't know. That's a great question. Yeah. Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 45 of 124 Page 37 multiple news outlets were invited? wrote their individual articles --- three separate interviews? at once to your office Because all I'm sorry. Are we okay? I'm sorry. I'm -- but I can't really recall. Yeah. Correct. --- you gave some comments, they each Right. --- and then you may have given two or Meaning likely that two or three came I think they were here. can keep up with you. A A Something like that. Q Fair enough. A Maybe. Q Certainly A I'm fidgeting now. Q Certainly - - I think the videographer Q A Q feld swoop. A Q It might have been two or three of them and then one on the side or something like that. A of that was -- it was just a -- like I said, we're talking about a very short period of time. I want to say the locals did everything in one 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 46 of 124 your speaking to the press? your speaking to the press before you did so? Q And if Mr. Hobbs spoke to the press after let's say the end of November 2007, after authorized you to give these interviews that appears in these news articles? not that I can recall. I don't Dh-huh. Are there any others? Right. Right. Are there any other interviews that No. And you certainly spoke to him about I believe so, yes. And he never complained to you about Page 38 Certainly you felt that Mr. Hobbs had A Q A Q Q A Q A Q A you can recall, other than the two that we've walked through, which may have just been one --- A Dh-huh. Q with regard to those deposition exhibits, the two or three that may have occurred by phone, and the one we're going to talk about here in just a moment, which is the Anderson Cooper 360 interview? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 47 of 124 Page 45 Q And what is your understanding of the parameters of that work that you did for Mr. and Mrs. Hobbs? Q And is it fair to say that you represented both Mr. Hobbs and Mrs. Hobbs in this sale of rights to a film company? A I want to say it was in 2006. It might have been -- might have been cold. So it may have been, like, late winter, early spring 2006. Q And walk me through how you came to be involved with Mr. Hobbs. A I received a phonecall. I don't know if it was a referral or not, but it -- it was kind of a strange thing because somebody was telling me -- I want to say I received a referral about these people that needed some help with some movie. And you get cold calls like that. So I called them back and it ended up being Mr. and Mrs. Hobbs. Q And when you say "Mrs. Hobbs," you're referring to Pam Hobbs? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A A Yes. Correct. Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 48 of 124 could be portrayed in a movie? advised them as far as what the contractural restrictions would be, what they could not -­ what they could and could not do individually. Q Did you tell them to expect that if they sold these rights, that the detail -- these life rights --- Page 46 A If I remember right, it was for a sum certain. They would get a cash payment in exchange for access by the people that were filming the -- the movie; and if I remember right, there was a time frame in which they they have access. Q And certainly in doing your due diligence with the Hobbses, you advised them that if they entered a deal like this that their life was going to be made public. their lives being made public. I more so Of their own lives? Yes. I told them that that was a Dh-huh. --- that the details of their lives Well, I didn't advise them as far as Q A Q A A A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 49 of 124 while. be the stars. least a draft version of the contract -- This is an unsigned version. I haven't seen it in a I will put the -- at Page 47 But I didn't really see that Right. --- that was ultimately entered into. Dh-huh. (By Ms. Davis) Wouldn't be the stars, but The parents of these children wouldn't Q Let me just back up and ask you if that looks like a true and correct copy of at least one draft of this contract between Mr. and Mrs. Hobbs and Dimension Films regarding the rights to their story. A Looks like it. Q A A Q MS. DAVIS: And let me mark this as Deposition Exhibit No. 14. (Whereupon, Exhibit No. 14 was marked to the testimony of the wi tness. ) Q certainly as being -- I don't -- the story is not the parents. possibility, yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 50 of 124 connection with a motion picture project." attention, while you're looking, to one, two, three, four, five -- the fifth line, end of course, the life story of their son who was murdered, Steve Branch. purchase by company of all rights in and to the stories -- to the life stories of owner and Steven Branch, the deceased son of Pam Hobbs and Terry Hobbs" --- I'm Of Right, right. And I didn't want to Page 48 And I will just direct your Talks about, "with respect to the Steve Branch. --- "and any other family members in Sure. --- as well as the rights to, of Dh-huh. Dh-huh. Right. Of course. I didn't mean to interrupt you. sorry. course. A A Q Q And the reason I point that out is to see if that refreshes your recollection that this Deposition Exhibit No. 14 was a sale by Pam Hobbs and Terry Hobbs of the rights to their life story --- A A Q Q fourth line. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 51 of 124 lawyer and doing family --- the three little boys that had been murdered. A Right, right. experience in the business, you understood that at least the first prime point in a movie about these events would be the murders themselves. guess looking at it from I guess I was looking at it from almost a I guess the what the end product will be. The -- this is a sale of their life stories. That is absolutely true; but, of course, the life story that has value is the one -- Steven Branch. Of course. As a -- you're an Of course. --- in addition to being a criminal Right. And that, of course, would focus on Yes. --- sorry -- personal injury; correct? Correct. And so certainly, based on your Fair enough. Uh-huh. Page 49 No. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Yeah, I didn't want to, you know -- I Q A A Q A Q Q entertainment lawyer A Q Q A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 52 of 124 events in Pam or Terry's lives that the film makers want to use --- know that Steve is a main player or star in the movie. Q --- is Terry Hobbs and Pam Hobbs giving that film company the right to use those A Of course. Nobody is going to corne make the Pam and Terry Hobbs story. Q Correct. That would not be the name of it. Absolutely. --- events? And let me see if I can They can. -- Deposition Exhibit No. 14 --­ Uh-huh. Right. But to the extent that there are Page 50 And so, based on your experience, you A Q find it in here, but I believe that there is also in here the licensing or the transfer of the right of Terry Hobbs to his journals, any book that he writes, for the film makers to use that. Do you recall any negotiations regarding A Q A Q A Q 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 53 of 124 Page 51 book that -- or writings that Terry Hobbs hasi correct? Q Now, the artist and owner is Terry Hobbs and Mr. and Mrs. Hobbsi correct? A I believe so. that? A Some reason I do -- I do remember. Yeah, I think that approximately 180-page memorabil -- yeah, memoranda. Q Right. That I s Paragraph 7. "User of owner documents." And I will put it into the record real quick: "Owner acknowledges that it is the author of an approximately 180-page memoranda or letter and other documents and memoranda, collectively the owner documents, concerning the life stories and personal experiences of artist. Owner hereby grants company the right to use all or any part of the owner documents in connection with the picture." 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Q A Q documents. Uh-huh. And then the owner documents is this Uh-huh. The memoranda or letter, other Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 54 of 124 Page 52 Q --- that he assigned to Dimention Films, you would not have any reason to argue with that? A (Unintelligible) . Q And Paragraph 7 then is Terry Hobbs granting the Dimention films the right to use all or anything in his writings -- A Correct. Q And one more thing and I'm going to turn you back and I will get off this document, but do you see anything in the document regarding a time period for which these rights were granted to Dimention Films or does it Terry's or Pam's. Q Fair enough. Fair enough. If I represent to you that Terry has turned over four journals in this case and testified that those are his writings in his book --- I about his life, Steve's life or Correct. Uh-huh. I do remember the memoranda. only thing I don't recall is if it was A Q A A Pam's life. don't 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 55 of 124 Page 53 appear to you, based on looking through it, that it's an absolute sale of the life story rights of Pam Hobbs, Terry Hobbs and Steve Branch to Dimention Films for use in a movie? A Under -- looking at this document, I don't see -- oh, hold on. (Witness reading: "Motion picture, television, dah-dah-dah, earlier than five years, first commercial release. Should not transfer, exploit to any other party.") Okay. I believe the only time limitation, if I'm reading the -- under the rights provision, Section B, was that if they did not do -- if I remember right, I believe if they didn't start production within five years of signing this, then it was -- basically they were out of it or something like that. Q Okay. Is it possible that that provision, which is B on here, indicates that Mr. and Mrs. Hobbs may not transfer to anyone any other party besides Dimention Films the rights to their life story anytime earlier than five years after Dimention films does the movie? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A that. Or something -- yeah, something like Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 56 of 124 Page 54 Q But that sounds about right? A Yeah. I would have to look back at the file, but that sounds about right. Q Let me ask you if you think that in your files you have an executed copy of the final version of this contract. A Probably do. Q By the way, Mr. Hobbs said that even though the purchase price here was 15,000 dollars Q --- you got Dimention Films up to 25,000 dollars. Does that sound right? A It probably was more than that. I just don't --- Q I think Mr. Hobbs did testify that each that he got 12,500 and Pam Hobbs got 12,500, for a total of 25,000. A Okay. That might be right. Q Is that a fair, going rate back in 2006 for the type of life story rights that the Hobbses transferred to Dimention Films? A Under the circumstances, I would have to say yeah. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A Uh-huh. Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 57 of 124 Page 56 DNA, all of that. Q You haven't had any conversations with book publishers or writers or ghost writers A No. contract. Q And have you undertaken any efforts on behalf of Terry Hobbs to sell, license, assign, exploit any other of his rights related to what I've been calling the events? That's the murders about doing anything with his story? A No. Maybe besides -- there may have been some incidental contacts with Dimention Films, but that was about it. Q Fair enough. And so what I'm understanding you to say is after you negotiated this Dimention Films deal for Mr. Hobbs --- or television production companies Uh-huh. --- and Mrs. Hobbs, you were engaged No, no. Right. --- the trials, the convictions, the Not that -- not according to this Q A Q A A Q A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 58 of 124 Were there any conversations that you had with other entities regarding the sale of any of Mr. Hobbs' rights --- Page 57 in no further conversations with other entities about exploitation of any of Mr. Hobbs' rights to his story. Is that right? Is that fair? A That's fair. the beginning of my relationship with Mr. and Mrs. Hobbs. So there wouldn't -- it would be impossible to have additional contacts with somebody else because I didn't know them before that. conversations with Dimention Films that had already bought the rights --- A Uh-huh. Q --- but you had not dealt with any other third parties? What you're saying is, too, that when Correct. What about before Dimention Films? Remember --- --- in the events? Remember, this -- this contract was You may have had some subsequent Q Q A Q A A Q 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 59 of 124 assignment was to get that deal negotiated, not look for other deals? Page 58 you first were introduced to Mr. Hobbs, there was also a proposal on the table (Whereupon, Exhibit No. 15 was marked to the testimony of the wi tness. ) Q (By Ms. Davis) Let me show you Deposition Exhibit No. 15, which is, I will represent to you, a Dimention Films interview of Mr. and Mrs. Hobbs regarding the events. representations in the press that I won't walk you through unless you want to look at the news article, but he's -- he said that he has a book deal, and I'm wondering if you're aware of any book deal that Mr. Hobbs might have other than what's included in this Dimention Films contract we've been talking about. A No idea. Your Correct. --- for Dimention Films. Right, right. They came up with that one in their hand if you will. Mr. Hobbs has made some A Q A that Q 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 60 of 124 went over to David Jacobi's house and played guitar? be in storage somewhere. Q Did you ever talk to Mr. Hobbs about how his DNA got to the crime scene? A How his DNA -- the shoestring thing -- the hair? anybody -- well, I'm not going to say anybody with commonsense. But the child -- you know, he lived with the child. So a hair tied up in a shoestring is not -- not so outlandish, if you will. Q Your -- your point is that Mr. Hobbs lived with Steve Branch. conversation with Mr. Hobbs? They should You have notes of that I think so. Right. I believe we discussed it. And what did he tell you? Again, that's I want to say just what Fair enough. I think so. Page 63 Do you recall if he told you that he I would have to look back at the I don't remember. Q Q A A Q A Q A notes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 61 of 124 Page 64 about the Anderson Cooper interview. Deposition Exhibit No.9, and I will ask you if Q And if there was a discovery that one hair of Mr. Hobbs' was in the shoestrings of Steve Branch --- you can recall? A I got a call from some -- one of the I guess scoop people from -- from CNN, and they -­ they made a request, and I conveyed that request to Mr. Hobbs. And in discussion, he decided, yes, we -- we probably need to do this because of the reasons we came up with. Q And the interview was on November 7th of 2007. I'm going to show you the transcript here in just a second. Let me ask you real briefly Uh-huh. I'm showing you what's been marked as Okay. Uh-huh. How did that interview corne about if Uh-huh. --- that would not be crazy? Well said. Uh-huh. A Q A A Q A Q A Q 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 62 of 124 Let me see if I can find it for you real quick. things up, I've highlighted on my -- my copy of this do you feel like that the attorneys are accusing you of this crime?" And that reference I believe is the West Memphis 3 attorneys that have filed the habeas corpus. Page 65 just glancing through that that appears to be a true and correct copy of a transcript of that interview by the Anderson Cooper 360 show of you and Mr. Hobbs. Yeah, you "Mr. Hobbs, You make the Just for purposes of Okay. Not that far in the back. I know. There you go. You're in the back. I'm seeing stuff about Sampson. --- where you appeared. Okay. There we go. I know. I apologize. (Unintelligible.) No, no, no. I'm in the back, huh? Okay. Yeah. we'll use that version, but to speed Q Q the statement -- well, the question is: Q Q A start seeing --- Q A A A A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 63 of 124 Q And you answer for Mr. Hobbs! you say! "The answer to that would be no." Q What did you mean when you stated that you and Mr. Hobbs did not feel like the West Memphis 3 attorneys were accusing Mr. Hobbs of the murders? A Well! after -- I guess after everything went down -- and as you've already said! I'm -- I guess professionally I'm a criminal defense attorney. Listening to the interviews and actually knowing -- there we go. Q Here's you right here (indicating). A Okay. Appreciate it. Listening to the interviews and listening to not only what the attorneys said but what they didn't say! and also knowing what the process that this case is in right now! after discussing that with Mr. Hobbs! what I meant by that statement was -­ and it -- I guess the general public would not appreciate that! but I guess in a nutshell! knowing that this is a routine -- a routine appeal! there was nothing special about this. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A A Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Page 66 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 64 of 124 Page 67 Q which is if a hair from Terry Hobbs appears in the shoelaces of his son --- Q that's not a big surprise? A You have to take it one -- one logical step further. Q Fair enough. And knowing when cases get to this point what the ultimate outcome is -- now, it sounded like news. Everything sounded like news. But ultimately, listening to the press conferences and particularly listening to what the attorneys not only said, but what they didn't say, that's why I could say that when they said there was absolutely no evidence that one of the West Memphis 3 boys was there, they didn't say that means Terry did it. And they said, "Oh, and there's a hair from the stepfather." Now, the implication there is that, okay, stepfather must have had something to do with that, but the lawyers couldn't say that. Q And we're back to your point --- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A A A Right. Uh-huh. It's his son. It makes sense. Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 65 of 124 the evidence that had been coming to light regarding DNA --- lawyers had said, but then when Terry Hobbs spoke, he was sort of expressing the anguish that he had been through and trying to let the talking for him, and then after I guess serious prodding, he did finally I guess open up. Q And Hobbs did agree at least to sit by you and have his face on national TV for this interview; correct? Page 68 Q Let me point you to this statement by Terry Hobbs. "You live with this every day, and then to have your friends and neighbors look at you and this -- is there something else there that -- that hurts." Was Terry Hobbs supposed to make a statement on the Anderson Cooper 360 show or were you supposed to do all the talking? There was an I was going to do the Right. --- and what the West Memphis 3 Right, right. And you sort of gave answer regarding Actually, initially it was going to Q Q A additional attorney here. A A be -- we were going -- well, we. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 66 of 124 Page 69 crime scene. public know how it felt to be in his shoes. A I -- that's a fair statement. Q You were authorized by Mr. Hobbs to make the statements that you made in the 360 interview? sure. Q And it was your understanding that Mr. Hobbs knew that the Anderson 360 interview was on a national news network and would appear nation widej correct? Q And he didn't have any problems with that, at least that he expressed to you? A He had some hesitation, but ultimately, no. Q Let me ask you this: You've talked about not being surprised by the fact that a hair of Mr. Hobbs might show up somewhere on his son, Steve Branch As far as authorization can go, Uh-huh. even though that would be at the Correct, correct. Yes. A Q A A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 67 of 124 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 C E R T I F I CAT E STATE OF TENNESSEE: COUNTY OF SHELBY: I, DANETTE CROUCH, Court Reporter and Notary Public for the State of Tennessee at Large, do hereby certify that I reported in machine shorthand the above-captioned proceedings. I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing pages contain a full, true and correct transcript of my said Stenotype notes then and there taken. I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not an attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor a relative or employee of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. I FURTHER CERTIFY that in order for this document to be authentic and genuine, it must bear my original signature and my embossed notarial seal and that any reproduction in whole or in part of this document is not allowed or condoned and that such reproductions should be deemed a forgery. THEREFORE, witness my hand and my official seal in the State of Tennessee on July 24, 2009. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 My Commission Expires: May 24, 2011 BLUES CITY REPORTING (662) 349-7070 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 68 of 124 ht.: ranscripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0711107/acd.0 1.html com .. Home .. World .. JLS, .. PQUtks. .. ():iJn~ .. E!JJ.~Iti! ..i.!1m~.nl .. Health II Tech .. Imy~l .. Llvlng II BJJsin~ss .. $pQIls .. IimG,QQ!n .. Yid~Q .. iR~p.ml .. Impi:lG-J Ishows By Category: I Tri'!n.,..~rIgt ..P.rQ.vj.g.§rJ; bp ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES Pat Robertson Endorses Rudy Giuliani For President; Murder of day, March 09, 2009 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 9 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 69 of 124 htt ranscripts.cnn.comITRANSCRIPTS/0711107/acd.0 l.html Three Arkansas Boys Reexamined Aired November 7, 2007 - 22:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAYBE UPDATED. ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, a coveted political endorsement from an unlikely source, why televangelist Pat Robertson, the man who blamed 9/11 on gays and abortionists, is endorsing pro- choice Republican Rudy Giuliani. Will his backing actually translate into votes? Just ahead, the battle over Christian conservatives. Plus, a stunning revelation from the polygamist leader Warren Jeffs. Thousands consider him a prophet. Tonight, they will hear them say he's no prophet. And you will find out why he tried to -- or what he tried to do to himself while locked behind bars. Also ahead tonight, 0.1. Simpson preparing for another day in court. We talked with the prosecution's star witness and investigated the heavy baggage he brings to the trial. All of that in the hour ahead, but we bring the endorsement that has produced the latest pair of strange bedfellows, Pat Robertson and Rudy Giuliani, an unlikely couple, to say the least. One is the founder of the Christian Coalition, who literally put the religious right on the political map. The other is a pro-choice presidential front-runner who, in the past, has supported equal rights for gay Americans and is on his third marriage. The common ground they have managed to find says a lot about where the race for the Republican nomination may be heading. More on that right now from CNN's John King. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PAT ROBERTSON, TELEVANGELIST: We're both prostate cancer survivors. 1\ day, March 09, 2009 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 70 of 124 htt ranscripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0711 107lacd.0 l.html JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONACCORRESPONDENT (voice over): Two men with a personal bond, and now a surprising political alliance. ROBERTSON: Rudy Giuliani is without question an acceptable candidate. KING: It is a striking statement from a legendary and controversial religious broadcaster who calls abortion evil and homosexuality an abomination. But Robertson says he is convinced Giuliani would appoint conservative judges and also convinced there is a bigger test for the next president. ROBERTSON: The overriding issue before the American people is the defense of our population from the bloodlust of Islamic terrorists. KING: Giuliani backed taxpayer-funded abortions as mayor and also signed a sweeping civil unions policy. So, Robertson's blessing is a boost for a candidate whose biggest weakness is the Christian right. RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I hope it sends the message that we have the same goals, all of us in the Republican Party. KING: In Iowa, more evidence of the fierce competition. John McCain welcomed the endorsement of anti­ abortion Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, who dropped out of the Republican contest three weeks ago. SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R-KS), FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm here today to endorse the best pro-life candidate to beat Hillary Clinton. KING: White Evangelicals are critical in two of the early nominating contests -- Iowa and South Carolina -- but have yet to coalesce around one candidate. KING: Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney's appeals include this stop at a South Carolina Christian adoption agency. MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the Book of Psalms, what is it, 126th? KING: Later, Romney predicted most evangelical voters won't follow Robertson's advice. ROMNEY: I don't think the Republican Party will choose a pro- choice, pro-gay-civil-union candidate to lead our party. KING: Robertson founded the Christian Coalition from the ashes of his 1988 presidential campaign bid. And it ]\ day, March 09, 2009 Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-5 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 71 of 124