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Terry Hobbs interview interview Terry Hobbs Hobbs interview Terry BSM Document Hobbs interview Pam Pam Hobbs interview interview Pam Hobbs Page
EXHIBIT 1
(continued)
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and that's one of the reasons I'm following up.
MR. THOMAS:
The rules don't
contemplate you going back through the transcript
after seven hours and then coming back in here
and pounding him.
MS. DAVIS: Well,
I'm not trying
to pound him.
I'm ---
MR. THOMAS: What we need to do
is move to new topics. What we don't need to do
is go to the transcript and use extra time.
You
know, we want to get this thing done today.
MS. DAVIS:
I
that understand
that Mr. Thomas, and I'm trying to do that.
469
14
Q
(By Ms. Davis)
But in follow-up to
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that,
I'm trying to understand your testimony.
MR. THOMAS:
You've made three or
four references to previous transcripts.
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Q
(By Ms. Davis)
And let me just finish
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this line of questioning; and that is to say
that in going down and meeting with the West
Memphis 3 investigators to see what kind of
people would want to get killers of out of
prison, you wanted to take that opportunity to
inform the West Memphis 3 investigators that the
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right guys were in prison and there was no need
for further investigation; correct?
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A
At the time, yes.
Little to know that
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I was under their investigation.
MS. DAVIS:
And I'll object to
everything but, "at the time, yes," as being
nonresponsive.
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Q
(By Ms. Davis)
Did you tell John
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Mark Byers about the DNA evidence when Ron Lax
told you about your DNA evidence?
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A
Q
I'm not sure.
Do you have any recollection of
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calling Mr. Byers and informing him of that DNA
evidence some time in Mayor June of 2007?
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A
Q
A
Q
I don't recollect that.
Is it possible that you did?
It could be.
I'm not sure.
If Mr. Byers said that you called him
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and told him about the DNA evidence before he
had heard about the Hobbs DNA evidence from any
other source, would you agree that that's
probably likely what you did?
MR. THOMAS: Objection; lack of
foundation, also calls for speculation.
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now let me ask it this way to make it clear.
A
I don't have any negatives.
Q
You do --
I meant grammatical
negatives.
You do not take responsibility,
personal responsibility, for any of the
emotional or other problems that your daughter,
Amanda Hobbs, has.
Is that correct, sir?
569
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A
Q
In this stack of papers, no.
I'm not talking about that stack of
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papers.
I'm talking about your daughter, sir.
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A
daughter.
Q
I have been a good daddy to my
And I take that to mean that when we
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talk about emotional or other problems that your
daughter has had, you do not feel you are
responsible for any of those.
Is that correct?
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A
Correct.
I've been a strong --
I have
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been a father figure to my daughter.
(Whereupon, Exhibit No. 32
was marked to the testimony
of the witness.)
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Q
(By Ms. Davis) Let me show you what's
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been marked as Deposition Exhibit No. 32, which
is a declaration from David Jacoby. Mr. Jacoby
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is a friend of your's; correct?
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A
Q
He is.
And he is also a major alibi witness
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for you with regard to your whereabouts on the
night of May 5th of 1993; correct?
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A
Q
He's one alibi.
Let me direct your attention to
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Paragraph 6.
Excuse me for just a second.
(Brief pause.)
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Q
(Reading. )
"On May 5th of 1993,
I worked at
the Memphis Ice Cream Company.
I
got home from work at
approximately 4:30 p.m. on that
day.
Sometime between 5:00 p.m.
and 5:30 p.m. on May 5th of
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1993
it could have been as a
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do you?
A
late as 6:00 p.m, but I believe it
was between 5:00 and 5:30 p.m.
Terry Hobbs came over to my
house."
You don't disagree with that paragraph,
Well,
I'm not sure about the time
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571
frame.
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Q
It's possible you got there between
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5:00 and 5:30?
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A
house.
Q
A
Q
possible.
A
It's possible I went over to his
Between 5:00 and 5:30?
I ain't gonna to say that.
Well,
it's either not possible or it's
Well,
I went over to his house.
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That's possible.
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Q
Is it possible you got there between
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5:00 and 5:30?
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A
Q
A
Q
possible.
A
Q
I'm not sure.
So, it is possible?
I'm not sure.
If you're not sure,
then it's
Call it what you will.
Let me direct your attention to
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Paragraph 7:
"I believe I saw Terry's stepson,
Stevie Branch, ride by on his
bicycle in the street in front of
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Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Was it in the
'90s?
I'm not sure.
Could have been the
'80s?
It could have been.
Was it before or after the murders?
After.
Do you recall how long it was after?
I don't.
What were the circumstances that
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10
caused you to file for bankruptcy?
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A
Q
I don't recall.
Have you received any charitable
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donations from people that were sympathetic to
the family situation that you were in following
the murder of Stevie?
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A
Q
A
did.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Have I received?
Yes.
Our families -- all three families
How much did your family receive?
I couldn't tell you.
More than 10,000?
I couldn't tell you.
More than 20,000?
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Q
(By Ms. Davis)
How -- what would be
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the best way for me to determine how much your
family received as a result of charitable
donations arising from people's sympathy over
the murder of Stevie?
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A
Ask Father Tinsley.
He was in charge
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of the funds.
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Q
Have you received any funds from
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people sympathetic to your situation following
the death of Stevie, other than the funds you
received through this Father Tinsley?
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Q
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Q
didn't?
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Q
Not that I recall.
Is it possible you did?
Here we go.
It's possible you did and possible you
I didn't.
I don't recall.
Well, are you sure you didn't or do
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you not recall whether you did or not?
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A
Q
I don't believe we have.
If we take the charitable gifts that
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you received from people sympathetic to your
situation following the murder of Stevie and we
add the amounts that you received from the sale
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599
while she was living with you?
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Q
I don't know.
Do you have any recollection of
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calling the police and reporting that Amanda had
run away in 2004?
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A
Q
A
Q
No, not right off.
Doesn't ring a bell?
No.
Did Pam Hobbs get a restraining order
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against you in 2005?
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Q
A
bell.
Q
1994?
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Q
I'm not sure.
That doesn't ring a bell either?
I'm not sure.
No, it don't ring a
Did you have a breakdown in 1993 or
No.
If your journal says you had a
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breakdown in 1993 or
'94, would that be the
case?
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A
Q
I don't believe my journal says that.
If your journal did say that, would
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you argue with it?
MR. THOMAS:
Objection; calls for
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speculation.
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Q
journal?
A
(By Ms. Davis)
Can we rely on your
It's just something I was trying to
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write a story about.
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Q
I -- you've said that before.
Clarify
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that for me.
Are you trying to write a fiction
story or are you trying to accurately record the
events that occurred on May 5th?
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A
Q
A
Q
A
I'm just trying to write a story.
What does "a story" mean?
To me,
this is a story.
Just a story.
A true story?
I don't know if it's true.
I don't --
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I would like to think I'm doing my best with it.
Have you ever tried writing something about
something like this?
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Q
Mr. Hobbs, do you even know what's
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true regarding the events of May 5 th or May
6th of 1993?
A
Sure do.
Q
That just may not be included in your
journals.
Is that correct?
A
Well,
that might be your theory.
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Q
And it might not be included in your
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Dimension Films interview, the truth; correct?
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Q
Well, you can call it what you want.
And it might not,
the truth, be
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included in your interview with the West Memphis
Police Department; correct?
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A
Q
A
Call it what you want.
Are all those statements true, sir?
I wouldn't put stock in none of your
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statements.
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Q
Your -- your accounts to those
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different entities mayor may not be true.
That's correct,
isn't it, sir?
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A
I'm not sure.
MS. DAVIS:
Let's take a break
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and let me see where we're at.
VIDEOGRAPHER:
This is the end of
Tape 2 of the videotape deposition of Mr. Terry
Hobbs.
The time is approximately 11:16 a.m.
(Brief recess.)
VIDEOGRAPHER:
This is the
beginning of Tape 3 of the videotape deposition
of Mr. Terry Hobbs.
The time is approximately
11:29 a.m.
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noticed --
I mean, do you think you would have
noticed something going on if there was activity
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in that
A
Q
in the woods?
You would think so.
And,
I mean,
I'm curious, and I think
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there is a lot of curiosity about whether that's
where the murders actually happened.
Do you
have a belief as to whether the murders of the
three boys actually happened in Robin Hood Hills
Woods?
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A
happened.
Q
Well,
the police say that's where it
Okay.
And so, you're just satisfied
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that that's where it happened?
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A
Q
I had to be satisfied with something.
Okay.
And let's go back to the day
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that the West Memphis 3 were arraigned for
murdering Stevie and his two friends.
Do you
remember that day when -- when they were first
brought into the courtroom and charged,
arraigned with murdering the three boys?
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A
Q
Yes, sir.
Now, Stevie's biological father had to
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be physically restrained from attacking Damien
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Echols.
Is that right?
A
Correct.
Q
And then your wife at the time, Pam
Hobbs, Stevie's mother, had to be removed from
the courtroom because she kept hollering,
"punks, punks, punks" at the three?
A
Correct.
Q
And you went out with Pam Hobbs when
she had to leave the courtroom.
Is that
correct?
609
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A
Q
Correct.
And you were interviewed by the police
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at the time; correct -- or not by the police,
but by the press when you left?
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A
Q
three
Correct.
And Pam made statements about the
the West Memphis 3 being -- how she
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would like to beat their heads against the wall,
something to that affect?
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A
Q
All right.
And you made a statement that it was
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difficult for you to restrain yourself,
that you
were looking for a rail to jump over or some way
to get at the three yourself.
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Q
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Q
Probably so.
It was hard to restrain yourself.
Probably.
And,
I mean, you at that point had
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formed a belief that these three had killed
Stevie and his two friends; correct?
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A
Q
We didn't know until that day.
But on that day, you learned about
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Mr. Misskelley's confession? How did -- how did
you form the belief on that day that these three
did the killings?
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A
We were called -- the police called us
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and told us to be at the court on this day,
that
we would find -- we would see the three boys
that were charged with killing our kids.
Q
But what made you so convinced --
I
mean, Stevie's biological father is having to be
physically restrained.
Pam is hollering,
"punks, punks, punks," and you're looking for a
way to get at him yourself. What made you so
convinced at that point in time of their guilt?
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A
At this time, you don't know what to
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think.
You know, we
we got the phone call
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from the police, and we showed up, and this is
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A
Q
Would you repeat the question?
(By Mr. Wellenberger)
One of the
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purposes that you're trying to do here in this
lawsuit is to chill the rights of other people.
You want to -- just to chill the rights of other
people to advocate for the release of the West
Memphis 3.
MR. THOMAS:
Same objection.
9
Q
(By Mr. Wellenberger)
Is that -- is
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that one purpose of this lawsuit?
A
One of them.
Q
Now, Stevie had some friends.
Dawn
Moore was his girlfriend?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
He had gone and bought her a
five-dollar gift or something.
Is that right?
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A
Q
A little ring.
Yeah.
And then Erin Hutchinson was
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I don't know whether he was a friend or an
acquaintance, but I
think he knew Stevie, didn't
he?
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A
Q
A
They all went to school together.
In the same Cub Scout group together?
I believe.
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have a day?
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A
Q
A
Q
I had 110 a week.
A hundred and ten a week?
Roughly.
Do you still see any of those old
6
customers?
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8
A
Q
I have.
I've run across some of them.
There was one or two that it was
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really hard for you to go -- and I may be wrong
about this, but I was thinking it was really
hard for you to go to their stores after Stevie
because they were so sorry about what happened
to Stevie, and there -
that it made you relive
things.
Does that -- does that ring a bell?
A
Sure.
Q
Who were those folks?
A
I had a lot of customers that was like
that. All of my customers really thought a lot
of me because of what I done; and when this
happened to us, it's just like I belonged to
them.
They took it that personal.
And they had
taken a liking to me, and I would go in their
stores.
They would cry, you know, and they
would get emotional about it and -- and which
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REDACTED
631
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A
Q
I'm sure it did.
Okay.
And at the time you're doing
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the Dimension Films, is trying to do justice for
Stevie even a part of that at this point?
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Q
just
about?
A
Probably to some degree.
Now, tell me about that.
I mean,
what is this doing justice for Stevie
Because we felt like this HBO made
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some bad documentaries.
You know,
they led us
one way and done another, and we wanted to
somewhere along the line try to correct that,
and I -- when this come along, we probably
caught ourself doing that.
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Q
A
it.
Q
And by "correcting it," you mean ---
Get out some of the truth as we knew
And the truth will be like that Jessie _
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Misskelley gave four confessions, not one?
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24
A
Q
Okay.
I mean,
is that part of the truth?
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A
If that -- that means a
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(unintelligible) .
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Q
Well,
I mean,
I'm -- I'm not
-
I'm
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not telling you answers.
questions.
I'm asking you
6
A
I'm not disputing his confessions.
He
7
did that, not me.
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9
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11
Q
correct?
A
Q
And you believe his confessions;
I have no reason not to.
Now, what --
I mean, you're wanting
12
13
this film to come in and say the West Memphis 3
killed Stevie and his two friends, and they
14
deserve the punishment they got.
I mean,
that's
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the -- that's your -- that's part of why you're
doing the Dimension Films contract; correct?
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A
Q
I'm not sure about that.
Okay. What -- what are you unsure
19
about then?
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A
I mean, if that was our mission --
I
21
ain't going to say that that was our mission.
22
Q
Was that one of your missions?
23
A
It could have been.
I'm not sure.
24
Q
Well,
I mean,
I
thought you thought
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representing the Dixie Chicks, was she?
635
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A
She's known as a lead singer of the
3
Dixie Chicks.
That was in the papers.
4
Q
Okay.
So, she can be a lead singer of
5
6
the Dixie Chicks but still have a life separate
and apart from the Dixie Chicks, can't she?
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8
A
I don't know.
That's up to them.
MR. WELLENBERGER:
I'm going to
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take a break and see if there's --
I
think we're
about done.
VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going off
the record.
The time is approximately 12:07 p.m.
(Lunch recess.)
VIDEOGRAPHER:
We are now back on
the record.
The time is approximately 1:00 p.m.
(Whereupon, Exhibit No. 33
was marked to the testimony
of the witness.)
19
Q
(By Mr. Wellenberger)
Mr. Hobbs,
I
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24
had you look at Exhibit 33 during the lunch
break, and is this a copy of an article that was
in the Memphis Commercial Appeal following the
arraignment of the West Memphis 3?
MR. THOMAS:
We can stipulate to
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C E R T I F I CAT E
STATE OF TENNESSEE:
COUNTY OF SHELBY:
I, DANETTE CROUCH, Court Reporter and Notary
Public for the State of Tennessee at Large, do
hereby certify that I reported in machine
shorthand the above-captioned proceedings.
I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing pages contain
a full,
true and correct transcript of my said
Stenotype notes then and there taken.
I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not an attorney or
counsel of any of the parties, nor a relative or
employee of any of the parties, nor am I a
relative or employee of any attorney or counsel
connected with the action, nor am I financially
interested in the action.
I FURTHER CERTIFY that in order for this document
to be authentic and genuine, it must bear my
original signature and my embossed notarial seal
and that any reproduction in whole or in part of
this document is not allowed or condoned and that
such reproductions should be deemed a forgery.
THEREFORE, witness my hand and my official seal
in the State of Tennessee on August 12, 2009.
~~
DANETTE CROUCH
Court Reporter and
Notary Public at Large
My Commission Expires:
May 24, 2011
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..
"
t l o.
, '.
e C". ~
.J
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF PULASKI COUNTY, ARKANSAS
.
. q f1'-- DIVISION
NATALIE PASDAR, Individually;
NATALIE PASDAR, EMILY ROBINSON
MARTHA SEIDEL d/b/a DIXIE CmCKS
TERRY HOBBS
VS.
PLAINTIFF
CASE NO. (!/J -()S' -1 3 6 3tE25/1l/25/08 16:35:42
Pat 07Brien Pul~
'i Circuit Cl~rk
CR7 By ""'""71""-'~-
DEFENDANTS
COMPLAINT
COMES NOW the Plaintiff, Terry Hobbs, by and through his attorney, 1. Cody Hiland,
and for his cause ofaction against the Defendants, states as follows:
I.
JURISDICTION
1.
Plaintiff is a private citizen and resident ofMemphis, Tennessee.
2.
Defendant, Emily Robinson is a citizen and resident of San Antonio located in
Bexar County Texas.
3.
Defendant, Natalie Pasdar is a citizen and resident of Austin. located in Travis
County Texas.
4.
Defendant, Martha Seidel is a citizen and resident of Austin located in Travis
County Texas.
5.
Each of the above referenced Defendants, d/b/a Dixie Chicks, have systematically
and continuously done business in Arkansas by promoting and selling music in Arkansas at
retail, over the internet and by performance in Arka.nsas.
6.
The Court has jurisdiction over the parties and over the subject matter of this
Complaint, and venue is proper in this Court.
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 21 of 148
, .
II.
FACTUAL ALLEGATIONS
7.
That the Plaintiffwas the stepfather of Steve Branch, now deceased.
8.
That on or about May 5, 1993, the bodies of Steve Branch, Christopher Byers and
Michael Moore were discovered in Robin Hood Hills located in Crittenden County Arkansas.
9.
That Steve Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore were severely beaten
about their heads and faces and brutally murdered.
10.
That Damien Echols, Jessie Misskelley and Jason Baldwin were charged and
convicted of the murders of Steve Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore.
·11.
That the convictions of Damien Echols, Jessie Misskelley ~d Jason Baldwin
have not been reversed on direct appeal.
12.
That Damien Echols has been unsuccessful in seeking a retrial based on what he
has characterized as "new" DNA evidence believed to be sufficient to cast doubt on his
conviction.
13.
That the case involving Damien. Echols, Jessie Misskelley and Jason Bald,win
(hereinafter referred. to as the "West Memphis Three") has attracted national attention focused on
the sufficiency ofthe evidence used in achieving the convictions.
14.
That on or about November 26, 2007, Defendant, Natalie Pasdar recklessly
publ!shed or caused to be published malicious, libelous, slanderous, and false statements
concerning Plaintiff over the world-wide internet via an open letter on the Defendant Dixie
Chick's website.
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 22 of 148
·-
-j
/
15.
That Defendant's letter, when taken ~ a whole, aCcused Plaintiff of committing
the murder of Steve Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore. A copy of the letter is
attached hereto as Exhibit "A".
16.
That the aforementioned libelous, slanderous, and false statements by the
Defendant were republished by numerous media outlets and prominently viewed websites
including, but not limited to, Fox News, The Commercial Appeal in Memphis Tennessee,
People, Huffington Post, Free Republic and ABC News.
17.
That on or about December 19, 2007, Defendant, Natalie Pasdar was a
featured speaker at a "Free the West Memphis Three" rally on the steps of the Arkansas
State Capitol in Little Rock Arkansas in which she reiterated her position that the recent
DNA and forensic results had "given this case wings" and made other statements that
,
amounted to a false and reckless claim that Plaintiff committed the murders of Steve
Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore.
18.
That the Defendant's Little Rock Arkansas appearance and statements
attracted significant media attention and were widely printed, disseminated and broadcast
to an expansive audience.
19.
That Defendant's
repeated
libelous
publications
concerning
the
involvement of the PI~ in the mUrders of Steve Branch, Christopher Byers and
Michael Moore were not based on fact and, in fact, were false and reckless at the time of
publication.
m.
CAUSES OF ACTION
A.
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 23 of 148
· ~
DEFAMATIONlLffiEL
20.
Plaintiffs re-allege paragraphs one through nineteen as if fully set out herein.
21.
The acts ofthe Defendants as set forth hereinabove are libelous and libelous per
se and defamed Plaintiff, causing him to suffer personal injuries, injury to his reputation and
professional and business damages for which he is entitled to recover compensatory and punitive
damages as determined by a jury.
B.
INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS/OUTRAGEOUS
CONDUCT
22.
Plaintiffs re-allege paragraphs one through twenty-one as if fully set out herein.
23.
Plaintiff alleges that the aforementioned.wrongs constitute intentional, reckless
and/or negligent infliction of emotional distress and are actions that are so outrageous
in
character, and so extreme in degree, as to be beyond the pale of decency and to be regarded as
atrocious and utterly intolerable in civilized society, thereby resulting in severe emotional,
mental, and physical injuries entitling Plaintiff to recover compensatory and punitive damages to
be determined by the jury.
C.
FALSE LIGHT INVASION OF PRIVACY
24.
Plaintiffs re-allege paragraphs one through twenty-three as iffully set out
herein.·
25.
The acts of the Defendants placed the Plaintiff in a false light and were a false
light invasion of Plaintiffs privacy as recognized in Arkansas.
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 24 of 148
•
e.
26.
Defendants gave publicity to matters concerning' the Plaintiff which were false
and/or which placed the Plaintiff before the public in a false light, which were and are highly
offensive to any reasonable person, and the Defendants had knowledge or should have known
that the publicized matters were false or each and all acted recklessly and with reckless disregard
as to the falsity of the matter they were publicizing and the false light in which the Plaintiff
would be and was placed.
27.
As a direct and proximate result of the wrongful acts of the De~endants herein,
acting in a manner'specifically designed to harm and damage the Plaintiff and his person, did, by
invading his privacy and casting him in a false light commit the tort of false light invasion of
privacy causing the Plaintiff to suffer mental and emotional distress and other special damages
which he is entitled to recover.
IV.
DAMAGES
28.
Plaintiffs re-allege paragraphs one through twenty-seven as if:fully set out
herein.
29.
As a direct and proximate result of the wrongful acts set forth hereinabove by the
Defendants, the Plaintiff, Terry Hobbs, a respected, private citizen, was injured in his person and
business and in his personal and business reputation.
30.
As the direct and proximate result of the false, malicious and libelous information
published by the Defendants about him, Plaintiff has suffered embarrassment, humiliation, and
severe psychological, emotional, mental trauma, loss of income and other Qompensatory
damages in an amount to be determined by a jury.
31.
Plaintiff is entitled to recover punitive damages.
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 25 of 148
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff sues the Defendants for compensatory and punitive damages
and demands a jury to try this case when the issues are"joined and for all other just and proper
relief to which he may be entitled.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED this the 25th day ofNovember, 2008.
TERRY HOBBS
Y
, Bar No. 2002041
orney for Plaintiff
557 Locust Ave.
COD1Vay,AJ{ 72034
Phone: (501) 932-1007
Fax:
(501) 336-8688
Email: chilandlaw@alltel.net
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 26 of 148
· .'
07'~
" (..
~ Dixie Chicks
~
Page 1 of2
November 26, 2007
Letter from Natalie Maines: WM3 Call to Action
I'm writing this letter today because I believe that three men have spent the past 13 years in prison for crimes
they didn't commit.
On May 5th, 1993 in West Memphis, Arkansas three 8 eight-year-old boys, Steve Branch, Christopher Byers,
and Michael Moore were murdered.
Three teenage boys, Damien Echols, Jesse MisskeJley, and Jason Baldwin were convicted of the murders in
1994. Jason Baldwin and Jesse Misskelley received life sentences without parole, and Damien Echols sits on
death row.
I encourage everyone to see the HBO documentaries, Paradise LDst and Paradise Lost 2 for the whole
history of the case.
I only discovered the films about 6 months ago, and when I finished Paradise Lost 2 I immediately got online
t6 make sure that these three wrongly convicted boys had been set free since the films were released. My
heart sank when I learned that the boys were now men and were still in prison. I COUldn't believe it.
I searched for answers as to what had been done and what was being done to correct this injustice. I
donated to the defense fund and received a letter from Damian Echols wife, Lorn. She is a lovely woman who
has dedicated her time and heart to her husband. I was glad to hear that after so many years of fighting for
justice it looked like things were finally happening. Below, I have wrilten what the DNA and forensics
evidence shows. I hope after reading it and looking at the WM3.org website, you will know that the wrong
guys are sitting in jail right now, and feel compelled to help.
Inspired and determined to see the justice system work, many people have worked on this case pro bono for
the past 13 years. However, there are still costs that go along with the struggle'to freeing these three men,
There has been a wonderful resurgence of interest by the media for this case, but nobody mentions the need
for funds. Donations to the defense fund are desperately needed. DNA and forensics tests are expensive.
They are also what williinally set these men free. Due to so many people's passion and generosity, what
would normally be a case that costs millions is costing a fraction of that. I know around the holidays we all get
inundated with deserving causes and charities that are in need of donations, but this can't wait!
With all of the new evidence things are finally moving, and fast!
Any money that you can donate is desperately needed to pay for the experts and the federal court hearing
that is just weeks away. There is also a letter campaign that has been started by a new and energized group
of people in Arkansas. Q!J!t.~Jler§ to download the sample letter. Signing and sending this lelter makes it very
diffICult for this case to be ignored. Please mail the lelters to the following address:
Arkansas Take Action
Capi Peck, Coordinator
P.O. Box 17788
Little Rock, AR 72222-7788
After so many years it literally all comes down to this hearing.
The evidence is so strong that at the very least the judge will grant a new trial, but hopefully he will overturn
the verdict and these guys will finally be serit home to their lives and families. I know that this is a hard thing
to just take my word on, so please look at the case and the evidence for yourself. I am confident that you Will.
see the DNA evidenCe is irrefutable and that these three men did not get the kind of trial that is promised to
us - as Americans.
.
The system hasn't only failed Damien. Jesse, and Jason. but it has failed the three littie boys that were
murdered. Their killer(s) is still out there, and justice has yet to be served. Please know that your generosity
will make a difference.
Please know that your generosity will make a difference.
Sincerely,
Natalie Maines Pasdar
The follOWing is just some of the DNA and forensic evidence that will be presented in the federal court
hearing.
In late October. legal papers were filed in federal court in Arkansas showing that Damien Echols was
wrongfully convicted. The 200-page court filing includes DNA evidence that fail to link any of the three boys
http://www.dixiecbicks.comJ06-'pressDetai1.asp?newsID=669
11/25/2008
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 27 of 148
.
! Dixie Chicks
..
,.
.
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Page 2 of2
to the crime scene. This is very important because the prosecution claimed that Echols had sodomized the
victims.
.
-DNA tests also show that a hair belonging to Terry Hobbs, the step-father of one of the victims, was found in
the ligature of one of the victims.
.
-DNA tests also match a hair at the crime scene to a friend of Hobbs that was with him that day.
-DNA test results show foreign DNA-from someone other than Echols, Misskelly. or Baldwin-on the penises
of two of the victims.
-SCientifIC analysis from some of the nation's leading forensics experts,stating that wounds on the victims'
bodies were caused by animals at the crime scene-not by knives used by the perpetrators, as the
prosecution claimed. These wounds were the centerpiece of the prosecution's case, and evidenCe was
presented that a knife recovered from a lake near one defendant's home caused the wounds.
-Swom affidavits outlining new evidence uncovered by Pam Hobbs (the ex-wife of Terry Hobbs) who found a
knife in Terry Hobbs' drawer that her son (one of the victims) had carried with him at all times. After her son
was killed, the knife was not among his personal effects that police 'gave to the Hobbs family, and Pam
Hobbs always assumed'that her son's murderer had taken it dUring the crime.
'
-Newinfonnalion implicating Terry Hobbs-including his own statements made to police in·recent interviews
where he acknowledged that several of his relatives suspect him in the crime. The filing also includes a
chronology of Hobbs' activities on the night of the crimes, when he washed his clothes and sheets at odd
hours for no reason other than to hide evidence from the crilT1es,
'
- A sworn affidavit that refutes hearsay evidence from Echols' trial. The mother of one of two girls who
testllied that they overheard Echols admit to the crime at a softball game now says that Echols' statement
was not serious and that neither she nor her daughter believes he committed the crime.
e[iVi!<;Y P.g!i;y I I~fIlJ,~ ,i!!JI\..CQ.oq.i».'1!J-! QL\,t~,~
Wabsn. O••lgn and Programming by Bill Young ProducUon•• Inc.
http://www.dixiecmcks.comf06yressDetail.asp?newsID=669
11125/2008
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 28 of 148
Dimension Films
375 Greenwich Street
New York, NY 10013
Dated as of July 18, 2006
Pam and Terry Hobbs
3750 Macon Road
Memphis, TN 38122
Re:
Life Story Rights / Pam Hobbs and Terry Hobbs
Ladies and Gentlemen:
This letter will confirm the terms of the agreement (the "Agreement") reached as of the effective date set
forth above, by and among, on the one hand, Dimension Films, a division of The Weinstein <;:ompany, LLC
(and/or a development or production entity to be designated by Dimension Films) ("Company"), and on the
other hand, Pam Hobbs and Terry Hobbs (collectively, "Owner"), with respect to the purchase by COI11pany
of all rights in and to the life stories of Owner and Steven Branch, the deceased son of Pam Hobbs and Terry
Hobbs ("Branch") and any other family members (individually and/or collectively, Owner and Branch may
hereina:(ter be referred to as "Artist"), in connection with a motion picture project currently referred to as
"Devil's Knot" (the "Picture"). The parties hereby agree as follows:
1.
Purchase Price: The purchase price for the "Rights" (as defined below) shall be Fifteen Thousand
United States Dollars ($15,000 USD), payable promptly following Company's receipt of this fully executed
Agreement and ~1I documents which may be required by any government agency or otherwise to enable
Company to effect payment to Owner as set forth hereunder.
2.
Rights:
.
A.
For the purposes of this letter agreement,
the "Rights" shall mean the irrevocable,
unconditional right, throughout the universe, in perpetuity in any and all media now or hereafter known
(including, without limitation, all motion picture, television, television series, prequel, sequel, remake, and
other subsequent productions, merchandising, music, music publishing, soundtrack, screenplay publishing,
multi-media/interactive, DVD, on-line, digital media and digital transmission, novelization, live stage, and
all allied and ancillary rights or otherwise):
(i)
to use, fictionaiize, dramatize, adapt, transpose, change, simulate and portray Artist's
name, likeness (whether photographic or otherwise), voice, personality, personal experiences, incidents,
situations and events of Artist's life (which portrayal may be in whole or in part);
(ii)
to use, fictionalize, dramatize, adapt, transpose, change, simulate and portray the
name, likeness (photographic or otherwise), voice, personality, personal experiences, incidents, situations
and events of each of the individual Artist's lives which occurred on or before the effective date ofthisletter
agreement (which portrayal may be in whole or in part);
(iii)
to use, fictionalize, dramatize, adapt and exploit any and all other rights of
whatsoever nature owned or controlled by Owners relating to Artist,
including, without limitation,
photography, memoranda, letters, diaries and other personal effects.
B.
Owner agrees Owner shall not transfer, exploit or authorize any other party to exploit any of
Owner's life story rights in any media now or hereafter (including, without limitation any motion picture,
television, television series, or other audio-visual production, and print publication rights) earlier than five
(5) years after the first general commercial release in the United States of the Picture (the "Hold-back
Period"). Upon the expiration of the Hold-Back Period, with respect to any print publication rights not
otherwise exploited by Company during the Hold-Back Period ("Print Publication Rights"), Company shall
have its customary exclusive right of first negotiation/last refusal with regard to any disposition of the Print
Publication Rights by Owner. It is expressly agreed that the Print Publication Rights under this subparagraph
2.B. relate only to material written and/or created by or for
or authorized by Owner and not to any
HOBBS 00618
DEPOSITION
E~!T
q,~bb5
v.I
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 29 of 148
screenplay, characters, teleplay, music, lyrics, sequels or other material written and/or created by or for or
authorized by Company, even though the same may contain similar characters or other elements. Owner's
exploitation of the Print Publication Rights in accordance with the terms herein shall limit or shall not be
exercised in any manner which may infringe upon Company's Rights, as set forth more fully
in
Subparagraph l.A. above.
3.
Representations/Warranties/Indemnification: Owner hereby represents, warrants and undertakes
that: (i) Owner is the sale owner or controller of all Rights granted herein; (ii) Owner has all rights, power
and authority necessary to enter into this agreement and fully perfonn its obligations hereunder (including,
without limitation, th'e full power and authority to grant the Rights); (iii) there is no claim or litigation
pending with respect to the Rights; (iv) in conveying the Rights to Company, Owner will present Artist's life
story in a true, complete and factual manner; (v) other then those individuals who are a party to this letter
agreement, there are no other family members or other individuals who own or control any of the Rights.
Owner shall defend, indemnify and otherwise hold the Company Parties (hereinafter defined) free and
harmless froin and against any and all liabilities, claims, demands, damages and costs (including reasonable
attorneys' fees and costs) arising out of or resulting from any breach or alleged breach by Owner of its
representations, warranties or covenants hereunder or any other agreement made herein.
4.
' Credit Provided that Owner is not in, breach of its obligations hereunder, Coinpany shall accord
Owner a technical consultant credit on screen in the end credits of the Picture. AlI other, aspects of such
credit shall be at Company's sole discretion.
5~
Release/Waiver: Owner hereby waives, releases and discharges Company, Company's employees,
agents, representatives, licensees, successors and assigns, (collectively, the "Company Parties") from any
and all claims, demands or causes of action that Owner may now have or may hereafter have for libel,
defamation, infliction of emotional distress, invasion of privacy (pursuant to Sections 50-51 of the New York
State Civil rights Law or any similar statute in any other jurisdiction), or right of publicity, infringement of
copyright or violation of any other right arising out of or relating to the Company Parties' utilization of the
Rights or based upon any failure or omission to make use thereof.
6.
Consulting Services: Owner shall meet with Company and provide Company with reasonable
assistance/consultation in connection with the Picture and Rights whenever reasonably requested for no
additional consideration.
Such services shall include, without limitation, identifying and obtaining for
Company at Company's request, with respect to any actual individual, whether living or dead, or any "real
life" incident or place, the source of all factual material which concerns any actual individual, whether living
or dead, or any "real life" incident or place, and such other information as may be ,reasonably required by
Company. Owner shall not authorize others to circulate, publish or otherwise disseminate any news stories
or articles, books or other publicity of any kind relating directly or indirectly to the subject matter of this
agreement or a motion picture or other production based upon the Rights prior to the earlier of the initial
release date of the Picture or the expiration of the Term.
7. '
Use of Owner Documents: Owner acknowledges that it is the author of an approximately one
hundred eighty (180) page memoranda or letter and other documents and memoranda (collectively, the
"Owner Documents") concerning the life stories and personal experiences of Artist. Owner hereby grants
Company the right to use all or any part of the Owner Documents in connection with the Picture. Owner
represents and warrants that it is the exclusive owner of all rights of every kind and nature in and to the
Owner Documents, and the grant of use to Company hereunder shall not be in violation of any law or statute
or violate the rights of any third parties.
8.
Miscellaneous: At Company's request, Owner shall execute any and all additional documents and
instruments consistent herewith, reasonably deemed by Company to be necessary or desirable to effectuate
the purposes of this Agreement (including, without limitation, releases from other family members). OViner
hereby waives any right to seek or obtain equitable or injunctive relief in connection with this agreement.
All sums payable to Owner hereunder shall be payable to Owner collectively, whose receipt thereof shall
constitute a valid discharge of Company's payment obligations hereunder.
This Agreement shal I be
governed by New York law and shall be subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Federal and State Courts
of New York County. Nothing contained herein shall require the commission of any act or the paymeDt of
v.l
2
HOBBS 00619
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 30 of 148
any compensation which is contrary to any law, rule or regulation. If there shall exist any conflict between
this Agreement and any such law, rule or regulation, the latter shall prevail, and the provision(s) hereof
affected shall be curtailed, limited or eliminated only to the extent necessary to remove such conflict and, as
so modified, this Agreement shall continue in full force and effect. This.Agreement may be executed in one
or more counterparts, and when executed by each of the parties signatory hereto, said counterparts shall
constitute a valid, binding agreement. An executed counterpart returned by facsimile shall be deemed an
original. All of the principal deal terms which close this Agreement are those terms stated herein.
If the foregoing represents our understanding, please so signifY by signing in the place provided below.
Sincerely,
Dimension Films, a division of
The Weinstein Company, LLC
By:
_
Its:
_
Accepted and Agreed To:
Pam Hobbs
SS#:
Terry Hobbs
SS#:
v.1
3
HOBBS 00620
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 31 of 148
EXHIBIT A
SHORT FORM ASSIGNMENT
KNOW ALL MEN BY-THESE PRESENTS: That the undersigned, for value received, hereby sells,
assigns, transfers and grants unto Dimension Films, a division ofthe Weinstein Company, LLC, and its
successors and assigns (herein called "Assignee lt), all right, title and interest, including, without limitation,
throughout the universe, in perpetuity, in any and all media, known or unknown, in any and all languages, all
right, title and interest in the life story rights ofPam Hobbs, Terry Hobbs, Amanda Hobbs and Steven
Branch, including without limitation, all motion picture, television, television series, prequel, sequel, remake,
merchandising, music, music publishing, soundtrack, screenplay publishing, multi-media/interactive, DVD,
on-line, novelization, live stage and all allied and incidental rights of every kind and nature whatsoever,
under copyright and otherwise, and any and all underlying rights thereto (the "Rights"), all as more
specifically set forth in the agreement (the "Agreement") between the undersigned and Assignee dated as of
June 27, 2006.
'
The undersigned hereby irrevocably appoints Assignee as its attorney-in-fact, with full and
irrevocable power and authority to do all such acts and things, and to execute, acknowledge, deliver, file,
register and record all such documents, in the name and on behalfof the undersigned, as Assignee may
reasonably deem necessary or proper in the premises to accomplish the same, consistent with the Agre~ment.
Dated: As of June 27,2006
Agreed and Accepted:
Pam Hobbs
SS#:
Terry Hobbs
SS#:
STATE OF
COUNTY OF
}
} SS
}
. Dimension Films, a division of
The Weinstein Company, LLC
By:
_
Its:
_
On
before me,
, a notary public, personally appeared Pam Hobbs
,personally known to me (or provided to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence) to be the person whose name is
subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that she executed the same in her authorized capacity, and that
by her signature on the instrument, the person executed the instrument.
STATE OF
COUNTY OF
}
} SS
}
On
before me,
, a notary public, personally appeared Tem Hobbs,
personally known to me (or provided to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence) to be the person whose name is
subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that she executed the same in her authorized capacity, and that
by her signature on the instrument, the person executed the instrument.
4
HOBBS 00621
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 32 of 148
... wMC-TV: News,. WeaL .. '>:r~ffic, Radar, and Sports for Meml~"=·N; WMCT...
':--:-
.\:.~
Page 1 of2
'Reported by Janice Broach
·Step-father of a West Memphis Three victim writing book
Updated: Aug 8, 2008 11 :23 PM CDT
The man now suspected in the West Memphis Three murders 15
years ago is writing a tell-all book.
Jason Baldwin, Jessie Misskelley and Damien Echols are in prison .
for the killing of three boys 15 years ago. But in recent months,
Echols' defense team said DNA evidence has. claimed that one of
the victim's stepfather, Terry Hobbs, is the real killer.
Action News 5 has learned a hearing is scheduled for later this
month to make sure attorneys are ready to go forward with a hearing on new DNA results.
Damien Echols' attorneys hopes it leads to a new trial.
·Terry Hobbs said he just may go to that hearing. He also said he has got a book deal.
;"1 am not a child killer. I was a step parent back then and we were a family on our feet doing
:well and when this happened. It just blows your world away and to see it go on for 15 years and
to see what has gone on for the past year and a half has been devastating and highly wrong,"
Hobbs said.
Hobbs is the stepfather of Stevie Branch, one of the boys murdered by the so called West
Memphis Three. He has been named as a suspect in the murders of the three cub scouts by
Damien Echols' defense team. Echols is on death row. Echols' attorneys said new DNA testing
identified a hair found at the crime scene that ties Hobbs to the crimes.
"I haven't done a thing wrong and everybody knows that," Hobbs said.
A hearing on the new evidence is scheduled for next month. Hobbs said he may go to that
hearing.
"To look at the people that done me like that, 'cause I imagine they are all going to be sitting
there. I would like to just walk in and look at them," Hobbs said.
Hobbs also said he has kept a journal that began that day in May the bodies of the three boys
were discovered .
"Part of it is in the hands of a publisher or a book writer... not a publisher, a writer. I think we are
going to write a pretty good story about this," Hobbs said.
Hobbs also said it is about 300-400 pages and said someone in Hollywood wants the first rights
to the book.
Hobbs said Echols' defense team wanted to look at his journal and he would not let them.
Hobbs said Echols' defense team thought he confessed to the murders in his journal and that is
. why they wanted to read it.
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 33 of 148
.~.
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Page 2 of2
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He said that is not true and he has never let them look at it.
Clic.Lbere to e-mail Janice Broach.
a ONl..,~]~mfN {;AN IIIJ.,
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All content © Copyright 2000 - 2008 WorldNow and WMCTV, a Raycom Media station. All Rights Reserved.
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Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 34 of 148
, Familiar face in murder f~~~r~surfaces with adjusted attitude : cO~.~..}Ieialaldlll_~~'!!~~r-,
~~~..
..,,~ ...
Familiar face in murder case resurfaces with
adjusted attitude
By Marc Perrusquia
Tuesday, November 27,2007
From the tumor on his brain that he nicknamed "Harvey" to his violent outbursts and
his odd, backwoods humor, not much is ordinary about John Mark Byers.
For 14 years those eccentricities made him a suspect in the court of public opinion built
up around the 1993 West Memphis child murders.
A long-haired mammoth of a man with curious ties to cops and drug dealers, Byers
was the adoptive parent of one of three 8-year-old boys found nude and hog-tied in a
drainage ditch.
Defense lawyers and filmmakers pointed accusing fingers at Byers, something he says
sent him into a downward spiral of booze, drugs and a prison stint. For years, he hated
and largely avoided the media.
But now, as new defense evidence has emerged that alleges three men were wrongly
convicted and hints at the guilt of an uncharged party, Byers has a new persona.
With a shaved head and suit and tie, Byers is giving media interviews, saying he
believes the three defendants he once hated are innocent. He also claims to hold
damning evidence about the man he says actually did it.
"I'm not that crazy hillbilly they made me out to be," Byers told The Commercial Appeal
on Monday in a Downtown public relations office where he vowed to unveil his new
evidence soon.
"I'm not backing up. And this Southern boy does not run."
Calling himself "a 6-foot-6, 245-pound red herring," Byers, 50, said suspicions about
him caused him years of pain and stress.
But he says he's resting easy since defense lawyers filed legal papers last month in
federal court in Little Rock. Citing new DNA evidence, those papers assert that
convicted murderers Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley are
innocent. Among findings by a defense team of forensic pathologists and DNA
PASDAR 176
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 35 of 148
..Familiar face in murder ~~;:r~surfaces with adjusted attitude : co;=~?r.cialappeal.... Page 2 of3
..,,:~~~..
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specialists are two hairs found at the crime scene that defense lawyers say link one of
the victim's parents to the crime scene.
That man, stepfather Terry Hobbs, has emphatically denied any role in the killings.
"They (defense lawyers) have nothing better to do than to try to get some killers out of
prison. And they have to point the finger at somebody," Hobbs said again Monday in a
phone interview.
Yet Byers, who grew close to Hobbs in the years after the murders, says he's
assembled evidence against his old friend.
Byers said he secretly recorded hours of phone conversations with Hobbs in recent
months. He wouldn't say what's on all those tapes, but suggested it was· damning.
"In my opinion, he's a monster. He's been standing ·in my shadow. And I'm going to
expose him....
"If it takes my last breath on this Earth, I'm going to see that man in prison."
One of those surreptitious digital recordings landed on the Internet this month when
Byers inadvertently e-mailed it to the wrong person.
A copy of the 23-minute conversation taped in October was posted recently on
wm3hoax.downonthefarm.org, one of several mom-and-pop Web sites that have
cropped up around the case. On the tape, Byers and Hobbs talk about the new twist in
the investigation. At one point, Hobbs likens himself to the Biblical figure Job in
discussing his tribulations, yet insists he had nothing to do with the murders.
"When the circus left town they left a clown behind," Hobbs said Monday of Byers and
his allegations. "For whatever reason he's doing this, and I think I know, he's on the
wrong page."
Asked what he thought was motivating Byers, Hobbs summed it up in a word: "Money."
Byers confirmed in the interview at the offices of Carter Malone Group public relations
firm that he's writing a book and that Hollywood movie producers have bought his "life
rights." He declined to say how much he stands to make.
Carter Malone account supervisor Kalisa Hyman said the firm has been hired by Clear
Pictures, a Hollywood production company that plans to make a movie based on the
West Memphis murders. The firm has bought the life stories of several people tied to
the case, Hyman said. The company has also bought Hobbs' life rights, she said.
Nonetheless, Byers said his coming forward has nothing to do with money and
everything to do with the memory of his son, Christopher Byers.
PASDAR 177
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-t..~:-
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.
"I was compelled to find out the truth for my son and his two friends," he said. "If it was
your son wouldn't you go to the end of world to find out the truth?"
The case has puzzled and horrified since the bodies of Christopher and his two friends,
Stevie Branch and Michael.Moore, were pulled from a rainy weather creek in a woods
along Interstate 40 in West Memphis. A month later, police arrested Echols, Baldwin
and Misskelley -- all teenagers -- and charged them with capital murder. Echols now is
on death row, and Baldwin and Misskelley are serving life sentences.
Prosecutors contended at trial that the murders were satanic slayings, presenting
evidence that the teens were in involved in occult practices.
Yet suspicion fell on Byers after he gave a New York film crew a knife that later was
found to have human blood on it. Byers said Monday the folding knife had on its hinge
a spot of dried blood so small DNA testing at the time could only determine a blood
type. It was the blood type of both Byers and Christopher. The two weren't biologically
related; a stepson, Christopher was adopted by Byers.
When that film crew produced a movie, "Paradise Lost," and a sequel, both of which
aired on HBO, Byers said he was introduced to a national audience as a crazed,
backwoods nut.
He was seen in one film shooting pumpkins in a woods and likening the explosions to
the wounded heads of Echols and his co-defendants and in the sequel lighting three
graves in effigy on fire. Looking back, Byers said he blames himself for his odd
behavior, blaming it on grief and stress he was under. After the murders, he served 15
months in prison for burglary and said he's been in rehab several times.
"I missed the day in school when they said, 'Here's how you're supposed to act if your
son is murdered.' I must have been hunting or fishing or playing hooky."
- Marc Perrusquia: 529-2545
~ © 2009 Scripps Newspaper Group - Online
PASDAR 178
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Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of 2)
Tigerfish®
Transcribing.Editing
203 Columbus Avenue' San Francisco 94133
toll-free 877-TIGERFISH
www.tigerfish.com
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 38 of 148
Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of 2)
[Beginning of recorded material]
Interviewer:
Interviewer:
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Interviewer:·
Interviewer:
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[Unintelligible] recording?
Yeah. I just got to do this. [Unintelligible] right this way. [Where's] the
mic? I'll leave [unintelligible].
I was thinking this might be a good thing. Maybe even if you don't
mind just starting over, just --
Starting over this --
Yeah. Just because I want --
[Crosstalk] afternoon [crosstalk] --
-- because one of the things -- because again, one of the things I want
to make sure that we do, what we are intending to do is the-the whole
thing you and I talked about as far as showing-showing -- making
Stevie a person. I want to see him at school. I want to see him come
horne. I want to see him with his mom. You know, I want this person
to be a person. And so --
And what's great about this --
-- specific details of-of that are really-really good. I love the Elvis
story. I think there's a good chance that's going in the movie.
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And what's great about this is --
And-and the conversation about Mike buying the Elvis lamp.
This has -- this has all -- this has the three kids in it. This is just
[crosstalk].
And this is all three of them. This might be a useful way for partly to
frame all that.
I love that. I love that. Okay. So, pick him up the 2:45.
Yeah, at school.
At school.
And then we walk home. And of course on the way home, Stevie told
me -- probably a million times; I didn't count them -- "They love me."
I'd say around 3:00 or 5:00 is when Michael arrived, because school
got out around 3:00 or so, and we lived so close. Michael came over,
and Stevie would get into the [car fort] [unintelligible] by the time
Michael got there, and Michael asked if Stevie could come over to his
house. And I told him, "No, not today. I'm getting ready for work. I'm
cooking supper and all that." And Stevie and Mike were both begging,
"Please, please! I'll be back!" And I said, "Boy, if you're not back
home by 4:30, you're grounded two weeks [unintelligible]."
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And so, Stevie and Michael left just as happy as they could be. I
thought Michael had a watch on, because he told me as they rolled off,
he said, "My mom's not home yet, but she'll be home in five minutes, I
promise." Well, I wouldn't think five minutes had passed by the time
Christopher was knocking on the door. And he asked about Stevie a
lot, and I told him, "Well, you just missed him. They just ,left to go to
Michael's house." And he said, "Well, can I come in and see Amanda
for a little bit?" And I said, "Yeah, that'd be fine." So, they sat in the
den and watched the Muppet Babies, and when the Muppet Babies
went off he left. So...
How much older -- or Amanda was a little younger, right?
She was 4.
Four. So, he had a little crush on-on Amanda?
Yeah.
Four years older.
Melissa had told me that after they were murdered, that, urn,
Christopher came home one day and said, "[I'm going to have a]
girlfriend." And she said, "Uh, who?" And he said, "Yeah, but she's
younger than me." And she said, "Well, how old is she?" And he told
her, "She's 4, and she's [who is she?] Stevie's sister [Amanda]."
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Dat-dating a woman half his age already.
Mm-hmm.
It's-it's like in Hollywood or something.
And Stevie was, uh -- [always hitching up a date] with Michael
Moore's sister, Dawn.
And she was older.
I think I remember-remember hearing that, because Stevie was -- he
was ambitious in the older women.
Yep.
And, uh -- and Chris had the younger -- that's [crosstalk].
[Crosstalk] hung out with Mike, or Chris come over and I got him [not
wanting to] kiss Amanda.
And he was just [over-abused] in that day. And, uh, he'd come in, and
I asked Terry ifhe could tell Amanda, "Bye." And Terry said, "Well,
tell her bye," and Christopher shyly put his hands in his pocket and
told her, "Bye," which Stevie was out on the car fort laughing, because
he knew Christopher wanted her to come out there so he could give
her a kiss bye. And Terry [got him], "Tell her bye now."
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Terry Hobbs:
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I said, Ityou tell her in here, boy. It
Who was -- who was Stevie better friends with, Christopher or
Michael?
Michael.
Yeah. They were -- were they like best friends, the two of them?
Yeah.
They were -- they did everything together. But they hung out with
Chris quite a bit?
Dh, Chris and Stevie were in the same [group]. So, I would say
probably, uh, about a month before the murder was when Chris really
started hanging around them both.
Okay. What would you think of -- I mean, uh, of Mike and-and Chris,
particularly -- just-just in your encounters with them, with the boys?
[As the boys]?
Yeah, just [unintelligible].
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[Unintelligible]. Uh, Michael was over one day, and he had a little
play badge, and he told' me he as an undercover drug agent. And I said,
"Boy, you going to get them" --
A little -- a little sheriffs badge [unintelligible].
I said, "Boy, you going to go get them bad boys, ain't you?" He said,
"Yeah."
Yeah. What about Chris?
Michael spent more time -- Chris, uh, he was just a little shy little boy
then. Started coming over right before they died.
Yeah.
He didn't spend as much time there as Michael did.
He was more quiet and --
Yeah, quiet.
Had you guys -- had you all known the Moores before that, or did you
kind of just get to know them when their kids started hanging out?
[Unintelligible].
Uh, really? So, you hadn't even met them, [unintelligible] parents?
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 44 of 148
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[Unintelligible] Todd --
We knew the Moores.
-- Todd was [crosstalk].
Right, right, right, right.
We met Mark Byers [unintelligible].
Right.
So, all you -- the only way you -- you didn't know them directly at all,
but their boy, because of being in the neighborhood, would just corne
over -- he had just started kind of corning over as sort of hanging out
with your son, and with -- and with Mike?
Yeah.
And you knew they were in the troop, or you knew they knew each
other from school.
And so, let's talk -- let's talk about what-what-what you remember
from the night, from the time you went to tell Pam that he was still
missing.
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Page 8
Or do you want to start from where we stopped her, and just kind of
take it on through?
Yeah, sure. That's fine. You said around 3:05, or what was it, that they
took off, right?
Well, they were left here.
Steve -- uh, Chris left.
Yeah, but they were --
Chris left --
[Unintelligible] --
-- almost around 4:00.
-- [about] 4:00, because after the show ended.
The Muppet Babies come on at 3:30, and [they're off] at 4:00.
Right.
And you had -- then they weren't back by 4:30?
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 46 of 148
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Page 9
Yeah. Terry had come home, uh, a little bit after 4:00, and the first
thing he asked was, "Where's Frog Leg?" That was Stevie's nickname.
And I said, "He went [unintelligible] -- or rode bikes with, uh, Mike
boy. He'll be --
I guess that's -- is that because ofthe way he looked, or [crosstalk]?
[Crosstalk] .
Frog-Frog Leg? Tell, tell.
Yeah. We was living up in Indiana. My dad had are -- a chain of
restaurants -- we had 32 restaurants. Okay, one -- had [some up in]
Indiana. The one I refer to has a big lake to have a swim, and have a
good time. Right in the middle of this lake was a -- something like this
out there floating around, where you could climb up on it and dive off.
Uh, 80-foot -- there's signs posted out there, 80-foot beach
[unintelligible]. We all get out there to that, and climb up on there.
Pam's still on her way, swimming out there to it.
Right.
And me and Stevie's already up there on top of it. And he bails off in
there, not knowing how to swim.
Ohman.
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 47 of 148
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And boy, immediately I go in to get him. But when I go down to get
him, he just looking like a frog.
[Laughs]
[Crosstalk] kicking his legs and arms, trying to go up. He,wasn't going
down.
That's [unintelligible]. I used to teach [unintelligible] by throwing
them in the water, because they'll-they'll do it naturally.
I put my hand on his butt,just, you know, brought him up.
Brought him up, yeah. I love that. They call him "Frog Leg" ever since
then.
Yeah.
That's fantastic.
So, so you came home. She was getting ready for work, right, I guess?
Yeah.
And you came home, and you guys were like worried?
I asked her, "Where's Stevie at?" Because Amanda was there, and she
said, "He's off riding his bicycle. He'll be home at 4:30." I walk out the
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 48 of 148
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Page 11
driveway and look, you know, closer it gets to 4:30, to see ifI can see
him coming down the road, because I had to take her to work by 5:00.
Yeah.
And then -- and then [crosstalk]?
We left about 4:45, so we could go by the Moores to see if Stevie was
there, and tell him he was grounded. But, you know, they wasn't there.
And I went [crosstalk] --
So, is that [while] you were -- as-as soon as it was 4:30, you were
upset --
Yeah.
-- you were mad that he wasn't there?
[Crosstalk] wasn't home.
[Not] mad.
Well, I mean [unintelligible].
Not really thinking that anybody [unintelligible].
That's valid. Just thinking he just missed his --
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 49 of 148
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[Crosstalk].
So at that point, you're going on to work, and you just feel like, "Okay,
he-he stayed out too long. I told him."
So, from 4:45 -- what time did you have to start work?
At 5:00.
At 5:00, okay.
So, you took her on to work after you guys checked with the Moores.
There had been -- nobody had heard anything from him, and the
Moores weren't worried either, right? They just knew that these boys
were staying out [crosstalk].
Todd was out of town. He's a truck driver.
Hm.
And Dana's not home.
Okay.
And she's thinking [crosstalk] --
[Unintelligible]. I took her to work. I go back to my house. You know,
me and Amanda ride through the neighborhood to see if we could see
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Page 13
her. Then Dana comes over to our house and says, "You seen
Michael?" I say, "No, he was supposed to be at your house." She went
went back to her house, and kind of patrolled the neighborhood, and
that's where I met Mark Byers, when I went to her house. He came
across the street and asking if we'd seen Christopher. And we said,
"No" --
Is it -- is it 4:00 -- about 4:00 -- about 5:00 [crosstalk], so 5:30, 5:15?
Something in there.
Okay. And that's the first time you've laid eyes on him actually, right?
In my life.
Yeah. He's like, "I'm Mark Byers" --
Big old boy.
-- Chris' dad. I live up the street. Have you seen --
He lived right across the street from the Moores.
Right.
Mm-hmm. [Unintelligible].
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And so, you guys had actually just driven by the Moores just to see if
they were there, and you took her on to work. You went back to the
Moores -- or Dana Moore came over.
Well, I went back to the neighborhood, looking around [crosstalk].
Yeah. By yourself?
Yeah.
So, this would've been at 5:15 or so.
Right?
Yeah.
And we end up back at our house. Then Dana shows up at our house --
Okay.
-- and asks about Mike.
And then while you guys are kind of walking and looking around, you
run into Mark Byers? Had you guys started [crosstalk]?
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Well, we hadn't heard from them. They leave our house to go to her
house.
Yeah. And then Mark Byers walked over.
That's when Mark came walking across, asking about C~is.
So, what happened then?
We figured out they might be together.
He -- so, Mark Byers came to your house?
No, he came across the street to --
Came to Dana's house, [because they were out] at 6:00.
[Unintelligible] .
That was between 5:00 and 6:00.
All right, I missed something. So, how did you end up at Dana's
house?
They went over there after driving around.
Uh, you drove around, then went back to Dana's house, and then Mark
came over and it was about 6:00?
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Somewhere in there.
Somewhere in there, [unintelligible]. Okay. And then -- and then Dana
said -- Didn't Dana -- didn't Dana testify that she saw him around
6:00?
I think [someone did].
Yeah.
[Crosstalk].
[Crosstalk]. That's right.
[Crosstalk].
[Crosstalk] that's right. [Crosstalk] -- yeah.
[Crosstalk] go into a wooded area.
So, why do you think, urn -- why do you think at that point that Stevie
didn't come home? Like -- I mean, if they were out, [unintelligible]
obviously [unintelligible] the neighborhood around 5:30.
I called the police to make a report about 5:30.
I thought you made the report at [9:00] [unintelligible]?
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No. We were -- there's paperwork over there saying that I called them
between 5:00 and 5:30, I believe, and -- to report kids missing -- our
kid's missing.
After Chris had -- after Mark Byers had walked over, do you think, or
or before?
I think before.
But it was right in that timeframe. You know, basically once Dana
Moore came over, said, "Have you seen" -- you know, "I'm
concerned," and you guys went back to the Moores' house, and you
were kind of together thinking, "Okay, both of our kids are gone.
They're both late. We're a little worried now." Then Mark Byers walks
over, says, "I'm Mark Byers. I'm Chris' dad. Have you seen him?"
Then the three of you guys figure these -- the kids may be all together.
So, somewhere in that time you were getting concerned enough that
you called the police and said, "Hey, we've been looking for our boys.
We can't find them. Can you guys start [unintelligible]?"
And the answer the police told me -- "Don't worry about it. They're
over at someone's house playing. They'll be home."
Because it was so soon after they --
Right.
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So, you were starting to just get that slight sense of, "I'm a little
worried,"
Because [unintelligible].
[Crosstalk] [or not].
No?
He did want to help, kind of, like [crosstalk].
And had-had Stevie ever done that before, just not come home on-on
time?
It was unusual enough that you felt like --
Right.
-- something needs to be done.
And what happened from that point [unintelligible]?
We was told, "Don't worry about it. They'll be home." Well, as
parents, you know, we -- the Byers, Mark and Melissa, go out and ride
around [unintelligible], And me and Amanda go ride around
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Right.
-- to her house. Well, we never did run across nobody. I mean nothing,
no boys. That's what we was looking for. I take Amanda over to a
friend of ours that lived over by us, and pick her husband up, and leave
Amanda there, and tell him, I said, "I can't find Steve." H~ knew
Stevie [unintelligible]. So, me and him spent the rest of the evening-
he-he stayed with me.
Who's he?
David [Unintelligible]. He was just a friend who had a daughter
[crosstalk].
[Crosstalk].
And his daughter, you said, was a friend of [the family]?
Right. But me and him worked together [over in Memphis]. Uh, we
rolled around, and I got him with me. And we went everywhere we
could think of to look. You know? And didn't know where to look.
[Did you go] near or into the woods at that point [unintelligible]?
No, not then.
Was that a place that they played in a lot, or did you not
[unintelligible]?
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It was a place where kids had played and did things, like there's a
[unintelligible] --
[Unintelligible] kids would get up in there somehow and just run
around and play?
[But they-they] didn't know where he was at. [Unintelligible].
[Crosstalk] definitely didn't know it as a place where he'd go play.
That's right, yeah.
The first time [crosstalk] --
[Crosstalk].
-- Stevie, you're not in here.
That's -- so, you had just heard about it, and you go there and -- you
didn't know kids go in there personally, they would go in.
Right.
You just heard that maybe kids -- Did you -- had you also heard
anything about it being like a place not to be after dark, like maybe
transients being there, anything else about it?
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Not at that time.
Okay.
But we did later.
Yeah. So, at the time [unintelligible].
[Unintelligible] we would go up and ask, "Have you seen three boys?"
And every -- a lot of the kids were saying, "Yeah, we seen three boys
go into Robin Hood Hills." I didn't know where Robin Hood Hills was,
as far as they called it. But yeah, the more the people we asked, you
know, some of them kept saying, "Yeah, they [went there]."
You were -- so, you ran into a couple of people who said they actually
-- they saw them go in there?
Right.
So, at what point did you -- so, so you're still riding around at this
point, haven't seen them -- separately -- it's you riding around with
your friend --
David.
-- in your car. And, uh, assume the Byers -- you're not in touch with
them, but you assume they're out looking, because [crosstalk] --
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Well, we had seen them.
-- around. Are they walking or driving?
Driving.
And then, uh -- and Dana Moore's still at home?
Right.
And then what happened?
And were any of the people that told you that they saw -- they saw
them go into the woods, were they people you knew?
No.
Yeah. You just -- you were just asking people [unintelligible].
Right. Door-to-door, [unintelligible].
Uh, really? So, it was -- you were getting that --
Starting to --
Starting to get --
Starting to want to know something.
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Yeah, yeah.
And you were getting away from your little group of the few people
you knew right around there. You're just starting to ask strangers, but
you just [unintelligible].
The police -- the police had at one point told us, "Go door-to-door and
ask." So, a lot of us was doing that. You know, people we didn't even
know, there was starting to get -- be a gathering.
So, people were starting to get the word that some-some of our
neighbors we don't even know, three of the boys are gone. And some
people are starting to come out, and then they're asking their
neighbors, and it's becoming a--
That actually --
Neighbors [crosstalk].
-- didn't happen until the next day,
Okay.
People going door-to-door and stuff. Um, a police officer came to
[Catfish Island] where I worked, and took a report, went out to the
wooded area [with us] -- and I think [Gina Baker] was there. And
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those were the last two police officers I seen all night. They might be
it.
Okay.
And we-we was going down to the police station. [Crosst~lk].
[Crosstalk], and all that. And they told us, "We have every available
man on the force out there looking." Well, Terry was riding around
with David, and my daddy came down to help join the search too. But
at one point I found myself -- and I was speeding through Broadway in
West Memphis, and there wasn't a cop to stop me. I didn't see a cop
nowhere.
And this was all, though, much later that [night]?
This is after [crosstalk].
Yeah, later on.
[Crosstalk] after 9:00.
Mm-hmm.
So, leading up to 9:00 then still, just to get that sense of your first
experience of it, you were still driving around? People actually
[unintelligible], but you were going door-to-door --
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Before dark. And right at dark before Pam came, I picked her up from
work. There was a -- there was, uh, boys on four-wheelers, three
wheelers, riding. And everybody kept pointing to Robin Hood, and
there was people actually going out in Robin Hood looking to see if
they was out there.
Okay. So, it had started -- some local -- some people in the -- in the
neighborhood had started thinking they could be there, and [crosstalk].
What time were you -- what time were you -- were you supposed to
work until? Until 9:00?
Until 9:00.
Until 9:00.
Yeah, okay. And then -- and that's why you went there at 9:00,
because you knew it was time for her to get off.
Right.
And when you picked her up, nobody had talked to you yet, right?
[Crosstalk] .
You were at work. So, basically you had gone to work knowing that
Stevie was late in coming home.
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Yes.
And then he came and picked you up, and that's where it's like -- you
said, "Did Stevie ever come home?" or whatever, and you said you had
the pieces of candy --
[Crosstalk] went to the car and--
-- you said you-you had two pieces of candy in your hand for them,
for-for your kids.
-- [crosstalk] for Amanda --
And so, you went -- you headed out to the car expecting to see both of
them.
Mm-hmm.
Because they usually come all to pick you up together.
Mm-hmm.
And then what exactly did you say, if you remember?
She asked me where Steve was. I said, "We haven't found him yet."
And that's when you said, "He's dead"?
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She said it [first thing].
Is that -- that was the first thing? You just -- your first response was --
[Crosstalk].
-- "He's dead"?
When I called my sister at work to tell her Stevie was missing, that's
the first thing I said to her too. I said, "He's dead." I said, "I'll never see
him alive again." And she's, "Oh God, Pam, don't say that. He's going
to be okay. We're going to find him," but [crosstalk] Stevie
[unintelligible]. I knew--
Did you start [to get] frantic [unintelligible] inside?
And when I didn't see him -- when I didn't see him in the car, I
[unintelligible], because Stevie wasn't that type of child.
You just knew?
[Unintelligible] .
And so from that point, for you, the night was-was just sort of this in
inside, frantic fear, [unintelligible] --
[Crosstalk] .
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-- stress, driving fast, trying to --
Praying to God that you're wrong.
"God, please don't let this be so," but kind of knowing in my heart that
[that's] really what happened.
And meanwhile, you had [set off to] keep looking [or whatever]?
[Crosstalk] around dark.
And just trying to be calm, trying to keep her calm as you're feeling
scared yourself inside?
Yeah. [Unintelligible] the closer to dark it got, I mean, they were -
they -- he's scared of dark.
Yau knew that was bad.
At that point, at least you're thinking -- are you thinking maybe he's
had an accident, something like that? Or are you thinking maybe, even
that early, that someone had done something to him?
Whatever we-we-we hear -- we heard so many things. You know, we
heard that they was over there at the laundromat, so we ran over there
to the laundromat to see if they were in there. We heard somebody put
them in a van. You remember that? We heard somebody put them in
an ice cream van.
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That's all that night.
Yeah.
So, different people are saying -- they literally are saying" "I saw three
kids, uh, getting in that ice cream van. II
Yeah.
Somebody else says, "I saw three boys over at the laundromat. II
Somebody says -- what-what-what -- somebody said they were put in
an ice cream van?
A van.
Was it -- okay. Well, it could've been any van, not necessarily an ice
cream van.
And that lawyer that they brought from California -- what was his
name?
Chris [Unintelligible].
He lived here in West Memphis, and somehow he ended up in
California. They brought him back to West Memphis to question him,
because, uh -- because he drove an ice cream van.
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So that night, all you heard was a white van, white or yellow?
[Unintelligible] found out it was an ice cream van.
Yeah. And I worked for an ice cream company at the time.
[Unintelligible], yeah.
So, I had some of my customers tell me, "You did it!"
Yeah. Who was it -- do you remember who it was that said that they
saw them get in the van?
Just neighborhood people.
Just neighborhood people? And was it -- did they say "van," or did
they say "ice cream van?"
Van.
Just van?
A white van.
A white van.
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And then somebody else said -- I think how -- I mean, did they sound
certain when they were telling you this stuff, or would they be like, "I
think maybe I saw some boys over at the laundromat"? I mean --
We did -- we went over to the laundromat and checked.
Mm-hmm.
The official statements are pretty solid that people saw them go into
the woods. That's the last time they were seen.
There was somebody watching a show that was on about 6:00
[crosstalk] --
[Crosstalk] the news.
Yeah. And they-they said, "Yeah, we live here in the woods over -
and see them going in there."
All right.
Was that -- do you happen to know if those folks that said that -- and
they're watching the news, so that's how they knew the time?
Roughly it would've been -- was it 5:30 evening news, between 5:30
and 6:00? Or was it the 6:00?
[Unintelligible] 6:00.
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[Unintelligible] .
Was that over by the pipe, that place? Or was that over at a different
part? Do you remember the people that you're talking -- that you
talked to, where they said -- and they said they saw them going in.
Like going on into the woods, three-three boys.
Wouldn't it be by the apartments?
Mm-hmm.
By the Mayfair Apartments?
By Mayfair.
Yeah.
It's over on the end where the pipe is.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That's where they found the bicycles too.
That's right. Okay. So, anyway, urn, so --
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The rest of the night.
-- you keep on -- you keep looking-looking then. What do you
remember about that period ofjust the search? You searched all night.
Yeah. Like it was like, and what-what was happening. I've heard that
there were tons of people.
I-I -- yeah, it's one of those things I haven't heard very much. There's
not much to-to find in terms of documentation about --
Right.
-- what actually went on that night.
Because there was no police.
And-and were you -- how angry were you about that?
Very! We had made--
I mean--
-- two or three trips down to the police station that night.
Where were the cops? Where were they? Still don't know?
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They told us to go home, don't worry about it; they'll be home [to
sleep].
Okay.
I told them one time, I said, "He's 8 years old. He sleeps ,:¥ith a
nightIight in his room. He did not run away from home." So.
And they just -- they just were not --
They didn't give you any reason why they thought these boys might -
they might have run away, like maybe they thought one of the kids had
done that, or anything, or? Because you're saying -- Stevie's-Stevie's
not a runaway. You said, you know, "We know he's" --
We didn't know if the other two had done it at the time, but we found
out some things about them after the fact.
Mm-hmm. Like what?
Well, didn't someone tell us that they broke into school?
Mm-hmm.
Who broke into school?
Michael Moore.
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Michael Moore.
And Chris.
I've never heard that.
And we-we heard it. We don't know if it's true.
Right.
And we'd heard some things about, you know, Chris [may have] some
problems. So, so I wonder -- did you get any sense that the police
acted like they knew something about some of these other boys that
made them more inclined to believe that they might have run off or
something like that, or they --
The police made you believe like they didn't care.
That's when [crosstalk]?
[Crosstalk] show up.
Mark Byers had called Search and Rescue in Crittenden County.
Yeah.
Crittenden County told Mark that, "We can't come to West Memphis
until the police invite us." And they wouldn't [do].
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And as far as you knew --like you said, you're-you're like -- maybe
going looking -- well, first you're driving around town, just like going
crazy, "Where could they be in town?" holding all this nervous energy,
I guess. And at that point, you had been in the woods, right, yourself?
Or you--
I was -- we went [crosstalk].
We went to the woods [crosstalk].
So, you'd been -- you got a little bit into the woods. You call out.
Nobody sees anything. Then you go back. You-you're driving around.
And meanwhile you're seeing no police, no police in the woods.
Neighborhood people are in the woods, kids on four-wheelers are in
the woods.
Closer [on into] to the darkness, people start going home. It was just
us.
Yeah. Because I've read some things, and, you know, [unintelligible]
people talking about that night, kind of the chaos in the woods, that
some people were riding around on-on ATVs and stuff. And then a lot
of them did leave, but a handful of people --
[They came] back.
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A couple of boys said they went back a little later for a splash or
whatever, and they were --
Yeah. We was together at one point during that night when we heard
some splashing.
[Crosstalk] about 9:00.
And [crosstalk] like animals. It was more like -- they've never [done it
before].
You'd never been in there, so you wouldn't had anything to relate to in
the wilderness. It was all new to you. You're like going in these
woods, [crosstalk].
We didn't know where we were going.
And all you had was little flashlights.
Yeah.
That's what you had.
We were all sticking together and just kind of looking around.
You said the first time you went in there, you're like, "Oh God, Stevie,
you're not -- you're not" --
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Just by the way it was grown up and everything, I was thinking, "Lord
have mercy, son, you're not out here." And I started, uh, yelling out his
name, saying, "Stevie, son! You're not in trouble! Come home!" We
didn't find him.
And-and your feeling was, "This is not the kind of place ~tevie would
go play anyway," or you-you're hoping not?
Right.
'Because it's just so overgrown and-and --
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
What's left of it, yeah. It felt like it was pretty swift. Did you get down
to the water too, and [crosstalk]?
[Well], we crossed the pipe.
And you saw it, and the water's moving [unintelligible]?
It was deep.
Yeah.
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And [unintelligible] no [unintelligible] that time.
So all that night, you guys -- by then you're sort of together, you've
done your driving around. And most -- off and on you're together or
you're with [your friends].
He's with David, and I'm with my dad.
Your -- because you dad had come down pretty quick. You called him
after you got off work.
As soon as Terry got there, yeah. And, uh, from [Blywood] it takes
about an hour and 15 minutes, and daddy was there in probably 30.
And that's when he kind of hurt his back or leg or something, because
he was out messing around --
He did that when he went to the woods by himself with nobody out
there with [crosstalk] --
Was that your dad?
-- went through there, and he had a flashlight. And he had told us the
he tried two sets of, uh, bicycle trails, and it looked like that two boys
was on one bike, and down there close to the pipe was [unintelligible]
lost his balance.
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Yeah. So, he had gotten to that pipe, and that's where he -- where you
guys had heard somebody say they had gone in. And sure enough,
that's where he said he saw some tracks --
Right.
-- on that mini-gutter. So, he was one of the first ones -- he was the
first one to really start looking around in the woods. And then these
kids -- or had others been in the woods?
They-they [unintelligible] the woods before dark.
Okay.
[And riding] --
But there was nobody in there, you're saying, when he went at that
time?
No, not when daddy --
Right.
-- went in there. And I thought daddy was in there a little bit too long,
and so I was going to go in and find him. And there was a full moon
out that night, so I could see as I walked in there without a flashlight.
And there was a certain point that I got to that a fear had come over me
like I ain't never felt. It's like the hair is standing up on my arms. And I
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turned around to walk back to the truck. I wanted to run. And my
daddy was getting ready to go back in, because he thought
[unintelligible] .
So, he had [crosstalk] most everybody had gone home, like you said,
the people who had been in the woods. And then your da~ said, "I'm
going to go look again," and he went by himself. You know, can you
switch with me? Because I -- my back's killing me. I think this seat
might be better [crosstalk].
Yeah.
[Crosstalk]. I got to change my angle for my lower back. We're both
having back trouble today. My neck is kinked up, and his [crosstalk].
We're-we're a mess. Uh, what do you think -- when you think about it
now, do you think -- what do you think that fear was? Do you think -
do you have an -- do you have an idea of what it was, or do you know
now?
Urn, thinking back to when it happened and all that, I think maybe
[who] might have done it [wasn't completely] out of the woods --
And then you --
-- and was watching me.
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Terry Hobbs:
Interviewer:
Terry Hobbs:
Interviewer:
Terry Hobbs:
Interviewer:
Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of 2)
Page 42
And it was -- God was watching? That's why I-I -- that's why I asked,
is it just keeping you safe?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. So, I-I just [unintelligible] about getting up through the night to
that point. So then, at this point, your dad comes back, right? Or did he
go on -- did you go on home, and did he keep [crosstalk]?
He stayed.
So, he stayed. And you're still --
At one point, me, David, and her dad -- my father-in-law -- hooked up,
and we came into the woods from the service road side. And walking
straight back to the pipe, there's a trail -- there was a trail that cut off to
the left, and David and her dad kept walking back that way, and I took
off down that trail.
Yeah.
And it seemed like the further I went down that trail, the scarier -- the
more scared I got.
Yeah.
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 80 of 148
Terry Hobbs:
Interviewer:
Terry Hobbs:
Interviewer:
Terry Hobbs:
Interviewer:
Terry Hobbs:
Interviewer:
Interviewer:
Terry Hobbs:
Interviewer:
Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of2)
Page 43
And I ain't scared of nobody.
Yeah.
And my hair starts standing --
You had the same experience.
I did.
Wow. Well, that night -- yeah, and people have -- you know, people
talk about a sixth sense you have, like [if] [unintelligible] in perception
[unintelligible] --
Just a few feet from where I stopped was that ditch that they were
found in.
[Crosstalk].
Well, if you -- if you were -- you were on the service road, the-the-the
path you're talking about isn't -- it's -- it doesn't run right along that
ditch, because the -- uh, I know what you're talking -- I know what
you're talking about.
I think there was a blue beacon [truck wash] --
Yeah, I know the geography of it pretty well.
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM     Document 38-4      Filed 08/21/2009     Page 81 of 148